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Do You Want Your BG1 Party Imported into BG2:EE?

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  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    It'd be cool to have them in the pocket plane, but having a new party in BG2 helps keep the combat fresh.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    It'd be cool to have them in the pocket plane, but having a new party in BG2 helps keep the combat fresh.

    Finally, a plausible scenario. :) Okay, I could see the Fate Spirit bringing BG1 companions back for ToB... though given the massive difference in levels and the way the AI tends to be less-than-efficient in distributing talents/skills, I kind of doubt they'd be of much use anyway...
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    I would really like this feature :-)
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    WonKo said:

    Whilst it would be nice, I think that their contractual obligations would prevent them from messing with the default setup in the dungeon and the default state of those like Edward and Xzar (Though maybe not prevent extra non-original NPCs from also being present?).

    Exactly. You could have more people in the dungeon, with you, other than those that NEED to be there for the plot. If there's more than 6, they could just accompany you as allies (blue ring, with the option to swap them in/out) or, if that poses problems with traps and aggros, they might just "go ahead and wait outside" (like when Imoen runs ahead if she "dies" in the first dungeon). Either way, they need very little dialogue (for that part of the game, at least).
    What's possible though (and I think mentioned by Trent) is an adventure linking BG1 to BG2 and perhaps better explaining the setup at the beginning of BG2.
    If nothing else, gimme AT LEAST that. A "missing link" adventure preparing those things that ABSOLUTELY CAN'T BE CHANGED and setting them the way they are in "vanilla" BG2, and maybe setting up the things that you will be carrying over from your playthrough. And, of course, the "final party" (Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, Khalid).
    And if Jaehira & Co. died in your BG1 run, but you ABSOLUTELY need them alive, so you don't have to modify the first act dialouges, show them being resurrected in-between stories... somehow (similar to Drizzt and a few others: "Didn't I kill you in Baldur's Gate?").

    A combination of both features would be the best thing.

    Most people answering to this thread think this is about getting more characters.
    It's not.
    CONSISTENCY is.
    I don't want two separate-but-suspiciously-similar stories. I want one big, beautiful continuous story, from Candlekeep to Melissan's "Pocket Hell".
    Additional party members are just appreciated extra.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    If nothing else, gimme AT LEAST that. A "missing link" adventure preparing those things that ABSOLUTELY CAN'T BE CHANGED and setting them the way they are in "vanilla" BG2, and maybe setting up the things that you will be carrying over from your playthrough. And, of course, the "final party" (Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, Khalid).
    And if Jaehira & Co. died in your BG1 run, but you ABSOLUTELY need them alive, so you don't have to modify the first act dialouges, show them being resurrected in-between stories... somehow (similar to Drizzt and a few others: "Didn't I kill you in Baldur's Gate?").

    Completely unnecessary: firstly, this is a D&D game, so you should already be working on the assumption that death isn't final unless there are special circumstances. If one of the five returning NPCs died in BG1, just assume someone raised them. Not everything has to be explicit and out in the open.

    Secondly, you have those same dialogues with Minsc and Jaheira at the start of BG2 (ie: everything from "Who the hell are you?" to "Minsc, my old friend!")

    Most people answering to this thread think this is about getting more characters.
    It's not.
    CONSISTENCY is.
    I don't want two separate-but-suspiciously-similar stories. I want one big, beautiful continuous story, from Candlekeep to Melissan's "Pocket Hell".
    Additional party members are just appreciated extra.

    No, it's about more characters.

    It bears repeating that BG is a D&D game, and D&D storytelling is modular, not linear. Story-wise, BG1 and BG2 have very little in common: they're set in different places, with largely separate casts of characters, and - most importantly - they're thematically different. BG1 is a story about finding out who you are, and Sarevok's grudge against you is deeply personal. In BG2, you're an afterthought to Irenicus: he doesn't care about you beyond what he can get from you, and his ultimate plan has nothing to do with you at all. You are the one hunting him (a stark contrast to the many ways Sarevok tries to get you killed before you confront him).

    The narrative structure of the Bhaalspawn Saga is episodic, and your character is doing what all D&D heroes do: having adventures. These adventures don't need to be deeply consistent with each other - your character is in a new land, with a new mission and new friends, and maybe there are a few familiar faces around; that doesn't mean you have to connect every single dot and drag your old team back from the first game.
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    shawne said:

    If one of the five returning NPCs died in BG1, just assume someone raised them.

    To a player that goes from BG to BG2 in matter of days, that would be confusing. You don't want to show it? Fine. Then at least mention it with dialogue (as I ALREADY said, just like Drizzt and a few others).
    Secondly, you have those same dialogues with Minsc and Jaheira at the start of BG2 (ie: everything from "Who the hell are you?" to "Minsc, my old friend!")
    Yeah, see... those are not nearly enough.
    It doesn't explain why they're with CHARNAME, it doesn't explain why they're alive, it doesn't explain anything. The only options you have are: "yes, I know you" and "who are you?"
    Please.... =_=

    Most people answering to this thread think this is about getting more characters.
    It's not.
    CONSISTENCY is.
    I don't want two separate-but-suspiciously-similar stories. I want one big, beautiful continuous story, from Candlekeep to Melissan's "Pocket Hell".
    Additional party members are just appreciated extra.

    No, it's about more characters.
    No, it OBVIOUSLY is about consistency. It's even in the poll... JEEZ! =_=
    Again, eventual additional characters are only an appreciated side-effect.
    You don't get it? TOO BAD!
    But you can't use your ignorance and slowness as weapons to ACCUSE us of having a different purpose. That's called slander.


    Lastly... it's frustrating to see that there's still some people who think D&D = BAD STORYLINE. Seriously, just go away, please... :(
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    To a player that goes from BG to BG2 in matter of days, that would be confusing.

    If they've played through BG1, it's safe to assume they've visited a town cleric at some point and are at the very least aware that raising the dead is possible.

    (As an aside, they've also met Elminster, and are therefore aware that this is a setting in which "A Wizard Did It" can actually be the literal truth.)

    You don't want to show it? Fine. Then at least mention it with dialogue (as I ALREADY said, just like Drizzt and a few others).

    And as I already said, they did just that. You want it all spelled out, which... well, I happen to think BG's done rather well for itself in the Wall of Text department, it doesn't need any help there.

    (Another aside: these "gaps" you keep referring to have nothing to do with BG2. "Consistency" implies there would be some benefit in maintaining more continuity with the first game, but all the "solutions" you've offered here are about going back and giving more exposition on BG1. Those events have no direct relationship to the main plot events of BG2.)

    Yeah, see... those are not nearly enough.
    It doesn't explain why they're with CHARNAME, it doesn't explain why they're alive, it doesn't explain anything. The only options you have are: "yes, I know you" and "who are you?"
    Please.... =_=

    Not enough for you? The information's right there in the scene. Why are these NPCs with the Bhaalspawn? Because Irenicus kidnapped them. Why did Irenicus kidnap them? Because they're all connected to the Bhaalspawn regardless of how you played BG1. Jaheira and Khalid were your foster father's allies, Imoen was your closest friend growing up, Dynaheir was investigating "events on the Sword Coast" (Sarevok). These things are all true even if none of those five were in your party. These things are not true for any other party member in BG1.


    No, it OBVIOUSLY is about consistency. It's even in the poll... JEEZ! =_=
    Again, eventual additional characters are only an appreciated side-effect.
    You don't get it? TOO BAD!
    But you can't use your ignorance and slowness as weapons to ACCUSE us of having a different purpose. That's called slander.

    Well, that escalated quickly.

    Lastly... it's frustrating to see that there's still some people who think D&D = BAD STORYLINE. Seriously, just go away, please... :(

    Modular storytelling isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. It's just frustrating to see that there's still some people who think everything needs to be spelled out and linear and perfectly in step even when the very nature of the game doesn't require that.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Something that will please both sides:

    The introduction of BG NPCs that doesn't appear in any moment on BG2:

    *Good*

    Kivan
    Yeslick
    Alora

    *Neutral*

    Xan
    Branwen
    Skie

    *Evil*

    Kagain
    Eldoth
    Shar-Teel

    As they don't interact in BG2 in any way, their appearance would not break any contract rules, neither would change the original plot.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    kamuizin said:

    Something that will please both sides:

    The introduction of BG NPCs that doesn't appear in any moment on BG2:

    I rather think both sides would be disappointed - the pro-BG1 group will protest that Alora is available but Safana isn't, or Eldoth is available but Garrick isn't, etc.

    And the anti-BG1 group will still have to put up with a whole bunch of characters the game doesn't need.

    If you ask me, the solution is painfully, obviously simple: there are mods that can add most, if not all, of the BG1 cast to BG2. Any player who wants them can go get them. There's no need for Beamdog to throw away precious time and resources on such a contentious project.
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    I don't really understand this obsession people have on bringing back more NPCs from BG1. It doesn't really make the story that much more consistent either without altering content the contract prohibits. They had something else to do and left, end of story. If you really really want to have them, install some mods.

    You'll already have 3 more NPCs from BG1 in BG2, the new ones. Instead of recycling the same old faces isn't it more refreshing to have some truly new content?
  • Silver6986Silver6986 Member Posts: 26
    For me, exactly what g314 said pretty much sums up close enough to what I would love to see (taken from post):

    - Imoen stays, obviously (even if you didn't keep her in your party).
    - You have Jaheira and Khalid in your party. Khalid dies. No changes (mods are still possible).
    - Jaheira died in BG1 and you kept Khalid in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Minsc and Dynaheir in your party. Dynaheir dies. No changes (mods are still possible).
    - Minsc died in BG1 (oh man, how could you?) and you kept Dynaheir in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Edwin in your party. Someone else will serve Mae'Var (Yoshimo?).
    - You have Viconia in your party. In Athkatla she will be kidnapped and you must save her. No changes.
    - You have Xan, Yeslick, Alora, Kivan, Branwen, Shar-Teel, or Kagain in your party. If not, you'll never meet them again in BG2, except in your pocket plane if you wish, like anybody else.
    - You have Eldoth and/or Skie in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Ajantis in your party. Keldorn (and Anomen?) will recognize him.
    - You have Faldorn in your party. There will be another Shadow Druid to defeat. She could even betray you.
    - You have Xzar and/or Montaron in your party. Chances are you don't have Khalid and Jaheira, but whatever the case, someone else will replace Xzar and Montaron in the Harper's Guild.
    - You have Safana and/or Coran in your party. If not, you will find them both in Chapter 6. No changes.
    - You have Quayle in your party. He will recognize Aerie in the circus. You can still choose who will stay or leave your party.
    - You have Tiax in your party. If not, you COULD still save him from Spellhold. You're not forced to take him with you, though.
    - You have Rasaad, Neera, and/or Dorn in your party. New banters and quests.

    If the devs could implement this, well I'm not even fussed if this is not exactly it, but some variation of it I think would suit just fine :) as already stated previously, if you took the intended group (as I always did for the final battle for consistency), you won't even notice the difference!
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @Bercon the obsession comes from the nature of BG, the develop of a history, not only the saga but the personal background of NPCs too, for example.

    Be able to carry from BG to BG2 an NPC is a way to have more time to develop that character, other characters (as Shar-Teel) for example, have a great background and potential for develop, but in reason of the few banters existing in BG, if BG EE don't fix this, again she will be a wasted potential.

    Bring her to BG2 can make Beamdog able to free develop her, if changes in BG Shar-Teel are forbidden.
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    What makes you think that the limitations only concern BG1? I highly doubt they are allowed to touch the existing characters anywhere within the saga. Is there some official info about this?
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @Bercon:

    As i'm not right of the limitations, so are you. So i give back your own question: what makes you thing the limitations exceed to NPCs not present in BG2 from BG?

    I Highly doubt the assignment rights from ATARI to Beamdog foresaw in details the manipulation of each NPC from the game, so being a generic clause the "no change on original content", bring to BG2 characters from BG, that don't appear in anyway on the original content of BG2, is is most probally a blind point in the contract.

    But as you too, i'm only speculating. As you, i'm not sure of this.

    But if only certain data and issues where allowed to be discussed on this forum, 90% of the actual threads would have to be deleted.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited August 2012
    I don't think they've released anything yet on the agreement for BG2... I would think that the same constraints will likely apply to BG2 with respect to any changes to existing NPCs. I haven't seen any official word on it yet, though.

    For BG:EE Beamdog will be able to write interactions between existing NPCs and new NPCs that take place in new areas only. As far as I know that will be the only new content allowed for existing NPCs. (Text dialogs only?)

    Related sub-question: How often have you ever experienced interactions between NPCs, in either BG1 or BG2? Commonplace? Rare? I've played the games more times than I can count, and only a handful of times did I ever witness dialogs between NPCs. In either game.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Lemernis: It depends on your party composition. In BG1, there are certain combinations of characters who have small dialogues together - Shar-Teel compliments Branwen on her fighting prowess, Edwin forms a (rather surprising) friendship with Alora, Jaheira comments that Minsc seems to be, well, insane. :)

    It's the same in BG2 - specific pairings lead to specific interactions. Put Mazzy and Korgan together and he'll spend the entire game trying to court her, pretty much everyone makes fun of Edwina, etc.
  • junk11junk11 Member Posts: 117
    I would be happy even if they release a DLC which explains the time between BG1&2, and why CHARNAME's party members leaves and who rejoins.. then connects to the original BG2 story..
  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    From Reddit AMAA:
    sepotter said:

    Will the bgee party be importable into bg2ee? More specfically Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad? Basically will it be possible to have the new characters in the dungeon with you, or will you have to find them somewhere else in Amn? And more on that, Will the romances started in bgee carry over to bg2ee, or will they have to start over?

    Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad will be available in BG2:EE. Regarding their presence in the first dungeon, aka Irenicus' Pleasure Palace, we haven't decided yet.

    Romances started in BG:EE should carry over to the sequel.

    sepotter said:

    Very Cool, if I had my way, the people with you in the dungeon would depend more on who was in your party in the first game (assuming you imported).

    I'd like to include them in the dungeon, but there are balance and story concerns here and there. The canon story is that the final party of BG was composed of: The Player, Jaheira, Khalid, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir. There are many references to this party composition as you travel through the dungeon, including finding the corpse of Khalid and Minsc musing about the loss of his witch.

    Did he say 'canon party' btw? =P
  • GruloGrulo Member Posts: 109
    Make it so that, if you finish BG1 with different party members than the "canon" party, they appear locked in a cell at the beginning of BG2.

    If they had any other role in BG2, have Biff the Understudy play it for them!
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    I don't imagine getting in the original voice actors to reprise their roles, so I do not expect much of this; though I would not be surprised if Neera, Dorn or Rasaad find their way in somehow.

    This said, I would enjoy some mention of those who travelled with you, if even a simple Charname-only, unvoiced retort at finding their remains in a suitably grisly location.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    It would be a huge amount of work to add all of the BG1 NPCs into BG2. Because there would need to be new banter and quests added for all of them, otherwise they would be very substandard NPCs.

    If all you want is their name, face, stats and no banter or quests then there are mods you can use to easily add them into your game. You can even pretend that when you meet their characters in game that they are doppelgangers.

    Personally I'm not necessarily a big fan of decisions importing from one game to the next. It places a lot of restrictions on the developers as to what they can do because of how quickly the choice tree can spiral out of control. It also means a lot of development time spent creating multiple branches were players will typically only see one of those branches. I'd rather have a more complex game that everyone will see.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Meh there were other ways they could've handled the story in BG2. Imoen is unnecessary for the whole process. I really despise how they rail-roaded things.

    I usually just manually add all the npcs I want and ignore anything that runs contrary.


    My biggest hope for the remake, was having the rest of Yoshimo's questline implemented. it gets cut off about half-way through, due to time constraints. And to date no one has implemented it, even in a mod.

    But yes, we need more evil NPCs. Eldoth could easily be written in...Skie isn't really necessary since she was just a means to end, and if he's in Amn, things probably went south back in Baldur's Gate. There's plenty of places he could be schmoozing for money or trying his latest con, and see the PC as a way to avoid some trouble he's earned or to greater fortune.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • phoenixclphoenixcl Member Posts: 31
    I'd rather have the people I actually adventured with versus people I not only did not take with me (except Imoen, given her usefulness), but breaking consistency and assuming they're even alive or friends with my PC.

    I'm aware of mods but I do not mod, and also aware that BG2EE will be the same game as released with the exception of the three new NPCs, but it would be nice for some consistency even it a few fanboys and girlsrl rage over their precious gem having a tweak or two.
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    One thing I don't like about BG 2 is the death of so many of our companions: Khalid, Montaron, Xzar, Ajantis, Dynaheir, Safana.

    We only know for sure that Viconia, Coran, Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Garrick, and Quayle survive. Presumably Branwen and Xan, too, because of their appearance in the Tutorial.

    I'd love a quest to revive Ajantis. He's my favorite and it's totally plausible.
  • GruloGrulo Member Posts: 109
    rdarken said:

    One thing I don't like about BG 2 is the death of so many of our companions: Khalid, Montaron, Xzar, Ajantis, Dynaheir, Safana.

    We only know for sure that Viconia, Coran, Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Garrick, and Quayle survive. Presumably Branwen and Xan, too, because of their appearance in the Tutorial.

    I'd love a quest to revive Ajantis. He's my favorite and it's totally plausible.

    We alreadey have a human Paladin (Keldorn), so reviving Ajantis would be redundant.

    Besides, Ajantis plays an important part in the Firkraag quest. The damn dragon fools you into killing him, making this encounter much more personal.


  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    I like Ajantis wayyy more than Keldorn.

    Yeah, I know his role is important, but I don't see why we can't bring him back. After all, we could rez him if he died in combat in our party, why can't anyone rez him when he dies in combat outside of our party?
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited December 2012
    Yeah, import my party that has Xzar, Monty, Kivan, Xan, and Kagain in it ... :)

    Oh, that's probably not quite what you meant.
    rdarken said:

    One thing I don't like about BG 2 is the death of so many of our companions: Khalid, Montaron, Xzar, Ajantis, Dynaheir, Safana.

    Agreed, that really, really bothers me about BGII to this day. Xzar is my favorite NPC. Montaron and Safana are way up there, too. Khalid and Dynaheir's deaths were at least huge plot points. Sure, Ajantis' was a plot point, but a very small and insignificant one, truly.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Voted no not becuase of canon party just becasue I don't think it's a good idea - for me the fewer changes to the original the better - this is something much better served by mods that people can choose to use or not use as they please
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    shawne said:

    kamuizin said:

    Something that will please both sides:

    The introduction of BG NPCs that doesn't appear in any moment on BG2:

    I rather think both sides would be disappointed - the pro-BG1 group will protest that Alora is available but Safana isn't, or Eldoth is available but Garrick isn't, etc.

    And the anti-BG1 group will still have to put up with a whole bunch of characters the game doesn't need.

    If you ask me, the solution is painfully, obviously simple: there are mods that can add most, if not all, of the BG1 cast to BG2. Any player who wants them can go get them. There's no need for Beamdog to throw away precious time and resources on such a contentious project.
    Yes, there are mods, but it would still be way cooler to see them put in professionally, with professional writing and all that. I don't think anyone would be disappointed. It's more recruitable characters, either way. . -c .
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Looking at Mass Effect makes me sad. It makes me realize that if they simply had the technology back when Baldur's Gate was made, we would have the very same import-your-party-all-through-the-series feature.
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