Cavalier or Undead Hunter?

fivetigers

I want to play a paladin, and I know a lot of people will argue that the Inquisitor is the best paladin kit. I won't dispute that and don't want this thread to turn into that debate. For my play style I will be using one of the other kits.

I simply want to know which paladin kit experienced players prefer between Cavalier and Undead Hunter only, and only in terms of BG2:EE.

I know the advantages and disadvantages of both classes. They both sound nice on paper, but what I don't know is which is more useful in the actual game.

atcDave

Both kits are very useful. The difference being, Cavaliers are more broadly useful, while Undead Hunters really excel only against undead! Sorry if that's sort a "duh" observation. Undead are more of an ongoing threat in BG2 and as such, Undead Hunters are more consistently useful in that game.

FinneousPJ

Cavalier, because like @atcDave said, they're more useful in general.

abacus

I've played both, and personally found that the Undead Hunter's immunity to Level Drain is really handy in BG2... There are items/spells that provide the same protection, but the more the merrier in my opinion.
The Cavalier's immunity to poison becomes less useful as Paladins get great saves anyway.

But really, there's not a huge amount of difference. The favoured enemy +3 to hit/ damage is fairly negligible with the powerful weapons you have available.

mlnevese

In terms of style the Cavalier always seemed to me to be closer to what I think a Paladin would be.

Anyway, both are very useful in BG2 and I think it's really a question of what you want your character to be: a valiant knight who fights dragons and save princesses or the courageous man who go to places no other man would have the courage to go in order to slay the horrors from beyond the grave.

fivetigers

I was mainly wondering which kit's immunities would be more useful in SoA and ToB. Guess I should have said that earlier.

elminster

Fear is pretty easy to protect yourself against and poison is pretty rare in BG2/Tob. So I'd go with the undead hunter for its hold and level drain protections.

Mathsorcerer

My preference has always been Undead Hunter. The +3 to hit fiends/dragons, remove fear, and 20% resistance to fire/acid aren't that useful, especially when you can get better via items; the immunity to charm, fear, and poison are also easily obtainable via items.

fivetigers

It's pretty easy to get any of those immunities through items.

Ring of Free Action
Ring of Gaxx
RuneHammer +5
Blackrazor +3

My question is which of those immunities will be utilized most often in BG2/ToB. If nothing else, Cavalier gets more bonuses than Undead Hunter and would require less items to mimic the other's kit bonuses.

element

I like the undead hunter it has a nice gothic feel to it, for me at least. And imo the benefits are a little more relevant over the cause of the game. They also free up a lot of good items for others to use.

both kits are very good though

fivetigers

Yeah, I was thinking of it in terms of item usage. Assuming all other gear is the same, here's the breakdown I came up with.

Purifier/Blackrazor/Ring of Gax and Undead Hunter = Cavalier

Purifier/Flail of Ages/Amulet of Power and Cavalier = Undead Hunter

I just need to decide which of those set-ups I would prefer. I think most players end up using the Ring of Gaxx on their main character anyway so it's somewhat redundant if I play as a Cavalier.

Edit: I think I talked myself into Undead Hunter since I will be using the Ring of Gaxx anyway and the Amulet of Power would be better utilized on a caster.

Khyron

I'd go with Cavalier.
Undead Hunter only has lvl drain immunity going for it, which is a fairly minor thing.

The Cav has pretty high elemental resistances, which means it's easy to get 100%.
Being healed by any and all sources of incomming fire/acid damage? Yes please (Over 100% means you get healed)
Then there's the immunity to morale failure and fear. (Morale failure isn't fear, but the status effect that can happen at very low hp and the char panics)
Not a big thing, but i've more than once lost a battle i was about to win because my stupid protagonist thinks this is a good time to flee, just because the hp gets low.

CaloNord

In BG2 the Undead Hunter is going to be extremely useful. Not to mention counter the very annoying level drain of vampires, they can tank ahead of the spell casters and squishier party members, keeping them safe from Undead.

That said if you use the cavalier the Protection from Undead spell will take care of all those pesky vampires.

If your looking for broadly useful, with some handy bumps and immunities. Cavalier.
If your looking to kick vampire/skeleton ass, Undead Hunter.

Corvino

Personally I like Cavaliers a lot. Aside from being suitable paladins fluff-wise, they're more relevant throughout the whole saga from level 1 to 34. The free remove fears free up spell slots on your Cleric every day, and you'd be surprised how much fire damage gets thrown at a tank.

Undead Hunters shine against undead, but don't add anything special anywhere else. The first couple of times you play through Vampires are scary, and always-on Negative Plane Protection is great. Once you know the game a bit better and keep 1-2 NPPs in your Cleric's spellbook, have the Amulet of Power and Mace of Disruption +2 then the great strength of the Undead Hunter is obsolete. Vampires are actually not very tough, just gimmicky. Take away level drain and they're easy, you don't need a class dedicated to it.

Tidus

I find it hard to argue for merits between kits, or even vanilla, when the biggest perk of the class is a weapon you'll abuse anyhow...

imho cavaliers are at their best when equipped with sword+board and resistances-improving stuff, but that also means that Haer'dalis and Jaheira won't get the same equipment, while undead hunters need their equipment to focus either on buffing or damage to be effective against other enemies too...
inquisitors are another matter, since their peculiar abilities are great from chapter 1 to the end of TOB...

Awong124

I prefer Cavalier. I never use ranged weapons with a Paladin, while Lay On Hands is somewhat useful.

Demonoid_Limewire

Hm. Inquisitor is indeed the best, but it looses many things for that awesome dispell and true sight (which are of higher level than normal, character skills/casts). Undead Hunter is very nice, although specialized, and feels somewhat limited. Cavalier is the most popular choice. Has decent bonuses (which are nothing spectacular when you start gearing up on good items, though), and you can get proficiency in axe, so as to counter his lack of missiles (azure edge).

I would play cavalier. It is a popular, overused, decent, always nice to try, kit. Also, with amulet of power, you don't need passive level drain protection, anyway.

[Deleted User]

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abacus

How in the Nine Hells is your Paladin using Blackrazor?

fivetigers

Is that an evil only weapon? I was simply looking up weapons online. I haven't obtained them in the game yet.

CaloNord

'Ye who hold the razor's blade
Forged of darkest iron
Quenched by blood and fear,
Know that ye hold the key
To the one who guards
Bhaal's sacred murdered tear.'

Yea. It's evil.

fivetigers

But I didn't see any useable only by evil in the description. And I don't roleplay my games so I don't need any self justification as to why my paladin would be using it. If the game let's him equip it, it's justification enough for me. :-)

MISCBC - Blackrazor, Long Sword +3

This sword radiates evil like a sour odor, and the owner never knows if he
wields the weapon, or if it wields him. In addition to its combat abilities,
Blackrazor slowly regenerates its owner with the drained strength of
opponents.

STATISTICS:

Equipped Ability :
Regeneration: 1 hp every 5 seconds
Immunity to Charm and Fear
With every hit it has a 15% chance of draining 4 levels, healing the
wielder by 20 hit points, and hasting him for 20 seconds as well as
increasing his strength by 3 points for 20 seconds.
THAC0: +3 bonus
Damage: 1D8 +3
Damage type: slashing
Weight: 4
Speed Factor: 2
Proficiency Type: Long Sword
Type: 1-handed
Requires: 6 Strength
Not Usable By:
Druid
Cleric
Mage

elminster

I think the issue with the blackrazor is that you can only keep it if you

follow that one evil path in the hell trials.

Needless to say keeping it is likely not an option for a paladin looking not to fall. You may be able to get around this but I haven't tested some of the older methods suggested online in the EE.

JuliusBorisov

thespace said:

Does the Undead Hunter's immunity to hold work for things like the hold gaze attacks of the demons outside of the Planar Sphere? Ya know, the one that can incapacitate your whole party in 2 seconds. It's things like this that make me go "yeah right" when considering no reload runs

Yes, it does.

BTW, everyone who considers playing a paladin kit - have a look at this amazing post of old by @GoodSteve‌ :

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/137635/#Comment_137635

Demonoid_Limewire

elminster said:

I think the issue with the blackrazor is that you can only keep it if you

follow that one evil path in the hell trials.

Needless to say keeping it is likely not an option for a paladin looking not to fall. You may be able to get around this but I haven't tested some of the older methods suggested online in the EE.

Why not go multi, export it before interacting with the genie, then load and import 2 copies of it? This way, you get to keep it, AND play the nice guy, he he!

FinneousPJ

@Demonoid_Limewire‌ Or you could use the console.

Demonoid_Limewire

FinneousPJ said:

@Demonoid_Limewire‌ Or you could use the console.

-_- By Bhaal and by Cyric, by Umberlee and by Talos! Whatever and whenever i suggest anything, always someone has to mention that Kozah ruin it, console! No, no console! No cheating! Only smuggling cheese that the game itself allows someone too!

FinneousPJ

I don't see how the console is cheating but import-export exploiting isn't. The game "allows" the console, obviously.