Solo Poverty Monks? What Steps Are Required For Feasibility?
Elrandir
Member Posts: 1,664
So most of us have probably heard of "solo insane poverty sorcerer play-throughs". But my question is, can it be done with a monk, and what steps would be required for it to work? Soloing BG2 as a monk is definitely possible, albeit challenging. But on a poverty run? Also, one of the biggest challenges for the hero would be BG1. Does BG1 REQUIRE magical combat to succeed, or can you flee from enemies requiring magical equipment?
For those of you who aren't aware, a "poverty" run-through is where you pick up absolutely no items or gold. Of course this doesn't apply to quest items, since those are required, but it does apply to every piece of non-quest equipment. Previously, the only class that "could" do this was the sorcerer, due to his offensive and defensive power coming straight from his spells, which are gained naturally. The monk's only true weapons are his fists, however, and they do gain an enchantment bonus naturally, up to +4, which is, to my knowledge, enough to kill anything in the game. The monk also gains a great deal of sheer combat potential, what with his eventual magic resistance of 78%, and his excellent offensive and defensive abilities. Now, are these enough? What about traps, or locks, or any number of things that might interfere?
Below I've laid out a few basic options to increase the monk's chances of success.
1. 108 total ability roll.
This would mean that the monk has an 18 in all stats. This isn't absolutely necessary, as some of his stats really don't gain any use from being that high. However, for the sake of the character, I decided on this anyway. So, this would mean that he has...
18 STR: The highest possible damage and THAC0 modifier available. This can't be increased to the (very handy) 19 in BG1 due to the nature of a poverty run-through, but it could be increased in Watcher's Keep, or the hell trials. Up to either 19 or (assuming the character chooses a path of evil) 21.
18 DEX: This would give the monk the best possible AC, which would be very handy, considering he'll be lacking armor. This could be increased to 20 if the character chooses to be evil, but the bonus wouldn't change much, since the monk won't be using ranged equipment.
18 CON: This would give the monk the largest possible health bonus. On the other hand, the monk does not NEED anything higher than a 16, and only if the monk becomes evil would he attain the 20+ required for regeneration.
18 INT: The biggest use of this is simply allowing the monk to survive against illithids for longer. Not much to say beyond that.
18 WIS: Completely pointless. The monk won't be identifying anything, so why would he need the lore bonus, which is all he would get from it.
18 CHA: Since the monk won't be bartering, this really won't do much, other than occasionally allow for better quest rewards and opportunities.
2. Easy difficulty.
This might not be the "uber hard challenge" that many people want, but it would greatly increase his chances of success.
3. Exceptions.
Maybe he needs a certain item to survive, or maybe he needs a weapon to succeed in BG1, who knows. Point is, what exceptions might need to be made, or are there even any?
4. Level Un-cappers.
This would mainly solve the lack of magical fists in BG1, as it would allow the monk to level past level 8 and gain +1 fists at level 9.
Any ideas? Any tips? Any memories from personal attempts? Share and discuss.
For those of you who aren't aware, a "poverty" run-through is where you pick up absolutely no items or gold. Of course this doesn't apply to quest items, since those are required, but it does apply to every piece of non-quest equipment. Previously, the only class that "could" do this was the sorcerer, due to his offensive and defensive power coming straight from his spells, which are gained naturally. The monk's only true weapons are his fists, however, and they do gain an enchantment bonus naturally, up to +4, which is, to my knowledge, enough to kill anything in the game. The monk also gains a great deal of sheer combat potential, what with his eventual magic resistance of 78%, and his excellent offensive and defensive abilities. Now, are these enough? What about traps, or locks, or any number of things that might interfere?
Below I've laid out a few basic options to increase the monk's chances of success.
1. 108 total ability roll.
This would mean that the monk has an 18 in all stats. This isn't absolutely necessary, as some of his stats really don't gain any use from being that high. However, for the sake of the character, I decided on this anyway. So, this would mean that he has...
18 STR: The highest possible damage and THAC0 modifier available. This can't be increased to the (very handy) 19 in BG1 due to the nature of a poverty run-through, but it could be increased in Watcher's Keep, or the hell trials. Up to either 19 or (assuming the character chooses a path of evil) 21.
18 DEX: This would give the monk the best possible AC, which would be very handy, considering he'll be lacking armor. This could be increased to 20 if the character chooses to be evil, but the bonus wouldn't change much, since the monk won't be using ranged equipment.
18 CON: This would give the monk the largest possible health bonus. On the other hand, the monk does not NEED anything higher than a 16, and only if the monk becomes evil would he attain the 20+ required for regeneration.
18 INT: The biggest use of this is simply allowing the monk to survive against illithids for longer. Not much to say beyond that.
18 WIS: Completely pointless. The monk won't be identifying anything, so why would he need the lore bonus, which is all he would get from it.
18 CHA: Since the monk won't be bartering, this really won't do much, other than occasionally allow for better quest rewards and opportunities.
2. Easy difficulty.
This might not be the "uber hard challenge" that many people want, but it would greatly increase his chances of success.
3. Exceptions.
Maybe he needs a certain item to survive, or maybe he needs a weapon to succeed in BG1, who knows. Point is, what exceptions might need to be made, or are there even any?
4. Level Un-cappers.
This would mainly solve the lack of magical fists in BG1, as it would allow the monk to level past level 8 and gain +1 fists at level 9.
Any ideas? Any tips? Any memories from personal attempts? Share and discuss.
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Comments
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Edit: No items? Can you maybe make 1 exception?
Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has never done a solo run in his life.
Remember Dex also affects thieving skills.
This actually sounds very interesting, and I have always avoided Monks. I may give this a shot myself, but I'll leave it to you to journal.
For BG2EE - actually doable I reckon, albeit very hard and you will have to avoid some optional bosses (Liches)
@Southpaw Good point about the battle horrors. I know for a fact they require +1 from an ill-advised trip to Durlag's Tower in my early days of BG:EE. I suppose as long as the monk manages to avoid them and kill Davaeorn without them bothering the monk then there wouldn't be too many other places where they would get in the way.
But I don't think it could be possible to do it no-reload, because without items, you will rely on luck for saves / magic resistance / some physical fights / etc.
Also, I don't think it can be possible on core difficulty or higher, just imagine how impossible it would be to kill Sarevok in straight melee without any items.
Very interesting idea, good luck !
BG1 should be more difficult than BG2 in a no-items, solo no reload run, since in BG2 you get insane Magic Resistance, THAC0, fist damage output and Armor Class, plus lots of cute immunities
Edit: I'd recommend going with a vanilla/unkitted Monk, too, you'll have problems killing Trolls, and maybe some other creatures I don't remember right now that need +5 to hit.
You'll just need 18/18/18/16/?/?, since Mind Flayers drain 5 INT each hit, so 6, 11, 16 and 21 are the magical numbers. You won't reach INT 21 so I don't see the point of having 18 INT at the start.
I recommend using the Tomes, even if it's a poverty run/no item run, you'll really need a stat increase.
Cleric/thief could probably do poverty runs without much hassle, but the final fight would be tough. Can you backstab with spiritual hammer, flameblade, etc, or are you stuck backwacking with your stsrting staff?
As for the tomes, I can't get/use most of them. STR is the biggest one, yet I can't get to it, CON is hidden behind the sirines, who I'd rather not fight. DEX is actually quite obtainable, but will I have the necessary gold to identify it? I doubt a 20+ lore (from the 10 bonus gained from 18 INT&WIS) is enough. As for INT and WIS, they're the most useless stats anyway. CHA is the only one besides DEX that I can see as being obtainable and useful. So the stat tomes aren't likely to be obtainable or very useful.
Edit: Why do I always mix up the lore bonuses for 18 and 25 INT&WIS? I ALWAYS do that. 20 bonus at 18 for both, not 80...
Pretend you're a Drunken Master!
If you use a couple potions, but none of the 'cheese' and no gear, it wouldnt be too big of a boost, but you could handle some stuff.
Also, you have 18 cha, right? Maybe let yourself use the +1 Dagger from Fuller? Its not powerful at all, and is given to you.
As for the dagger, I was considering that or some other +1 weapon. The monk's fists will out-damage most +1 weapons by endgame (BG1) if I remember correctly, so any of them would work.
And cheese? Oh no, cheese is pretty much REQUIRED. =p
I would say removing the XP cap in both games is a must.
What are the merits of using each kit? I'm not super familiar with monks, but wouldn't sun soul rah be great for cannon fodder and trolls and such? Do they lose their abilities for the evil path? I don't even remember the abilities of a moon monk so I'll let someone else do this.
With 18 STR, you can use the Innate Bhaalspawn DUHM (Draw Upon Holy Might) to raise your STR to 21 at level 9, and 22 at level 12 (if you reach said levels...), so maybe you don't need the STR Tome that much (but you'll need to sleep a lot).
As you're gonna reload, I think that it is impossible to fail with this (unless you give up), since you could beat the game with a potato if you reload at anything that goes wrong. In BG2, Monks' maximum level is 40. And, IIRC, it requires 8M XP (or less), so you can reach it with no problems. But BG1... damn that freaking XP cap! None of the good aligned kits/classes lose their abilities there. Yes, but Quivering Palm and Stunning Blow are great abilities, too. Sun Soul Monks are good too, I think that's something we have to leave to @Elrandir's playing style (disabling melee or sometimes casting damaging innates).
1) Sun Soul monk - has actually some range and AoE capabilities + self-heal.
2) Dark Moon Monk - possesses tricks that help with defense, no AoE and a Quivering Palm in BG2EE, which can be situational, but awesome. Being Evil makes things easier in Hell.
3) Unkitted - Stunning Fist is good, when it procs in BGEE, gets resisted all the time in BG2EE. Has no other tricks in his sleeve.
Many dragons/liches and other of ToB's bosses are immune to 90% of the non-benefical effects in the game, and, if that isn't enough, they have godly saves, and Quivering Palm doesn't have a Save Penalty, so it's easy to save against.
If you don't want to remove the XP cap, I won't say that there's a need of doing so, only Skeleton Warriors, Battle Horrors, Vampiric Wolves and Aec'Letec require magical weapons to hit in BG1, so if you avoid those, you won't have any type of problems.
For poverty solo, I have no clue how you'll get the first bunch of levels. Its fugly tedius.