Haha! I used to wait tables and I found that anything exotic greatly increased my tips. Hence, Blue contacts. I ditched them at the same time as my last serving job.
Haha! I used to wait tables and I found that anything exotic greatly increased my tips. Hence, Blue contacts. I ditched them at the same time as my last serving job.
No, I didn't. It's over half an hour. However, I'm assuming these arguments mentioned in the article are the main arguments of the podcast, and they seem more ludicrous than convincing to me.
No, I didn't. It's over half an hour. However, I'm assuming these arguments mentioned in the article are the main arguments of the podcast, and they seem more ludicrous than convincing to me.
Well, basically it's(the people advocating the abolition of tipping) saying that waiters should just make minimum wage like everybody else, instead of the maybe or maybe not minimum wage that tipped jobs make. Also, there's a separate minimum wage for tipped jobs. $2.13 an hour. The rest is supposed to be made up by tips. http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm And some restaurants already do this. They don't accept tips, and pay the waiters minimum wage or higher. They're doing fine. http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5888347/one-more-case-against-tipping And of you think about it, tipping doesn't make sense in the first place. Why do we even have it? So workers get payed based on the quality of the service? Like that has any play in how much someone get tipped. And even if that was the case, why do so few jobs get tipped? I would also recommend you actually listen to the podcast. I don't think the summery on the page is very representative of the actual information in the podcast, and I can't say I'm a fan of the way the website looks, but it's really quite interesting, I promise. It's more just about tipping than it is a case against tipping.
Ummm, I was a waiter for over a year. Whether or not tipping SHOULD be the societal norm is irrelevant to the fact that it is. And in that job you couldn't survive without it. It's a really feast or famine existence. And let me also add that the entire staff of the restaurant is going to rip you to shreds verbally after you leave if you don't leave a tip. It's not forgotten and it is taken into account in the future. I'm just laying out the facts as they exist in the real world. You will be pariah to the restaurant staff if you ever come back.
I don't know where in the world tips are common practice besides America, but I would personally prefer it if America actually paid their servers decently and tips were a courtesy, not a standard. I don't have any economical or personal reasons for thinking this way, I just feel like it makes more sense.
I wouldn't mind seeing waiters paid more. However, that would drive up the costs of restaurants, which I wouldn't like. Even so, banning tipping is silly.
One word answer: yes. Longer answer: Yes, the waiters and waitresses need the money to survive, especially here in the US where they get paid a measly $2.13 an hour compared to about $10 an hour for a non-tipped job. Read "Waiter Rant" by Steve Dublanica if you need more information.
Depends where I am in terms of country/culture and quality of establishment. I'm British and we don't have the same tipping culture as the US, and there's no lower minimum wage for waiting staff. I don't really expect much from a waiter and I don't tip that much in general, just what I think is fair. I probably earn less than the waiter working longer hours, so I'm not especially bothered about what they think is fair.
It really depends where the deficit in waiters' wages is going. Is the lower minimum wage resulting in the restaurant being able to charge less for food, or is it just making it's profit margins wider? I expect a bit of both but more likely the latter. If that's the case then employees should take it up with their employers not bitch about undertipping customers.
Waiters shouldnt be tipped and they shouldnt be paid minimum wages. Once you start tipping everyone the cafe-owners have a reason to lower/minimize the waiters' wages. Tipping should only occur in very special/extraordinary sircumstances.
Also, it is simply uneccessary that you always have to calculate tips and in many places waiters will only get the tip if you give it as cash (which at least I seldom have).
In the U.S., the IRS audits servers who don't declare at least a 10-12% tipping rate. If a restaurant patron leaves less than that, they're actually taking money out of the server's pocket. Edit: This only applies to restaurants with table service. I don't know anyone who tips fast food employees, who are nevertheless underpaid at $7-something per hour.
I worked as a waiter for two years when attending university and made $2.33 an hour. The rest was supplemented by tips, which I didn't receive at all from some customers, as they had no clue that serving staff can actually be paid less than minimum wage. Having experienced it myself, I absolutely support raising their salaries to the minimum wage, while either still allowing voluntary tipping or including a gratuity as part of the bill (which is the norm in many Asian countries).
An excellent summary of both sides can be found here, but my own thoughts can be boiled down to a few points:
- Little evidence exists to suggest that raising the minimum wage has a negative effect on employment. Most businesses tend to raise prices instead, but not to the point of offsetting the higher average income. - Increased salaries means increased spending. Virtually all research done into disposable income indicates that most people don't save more when earning more; they adjust their lifestyles, and still spend and save on a roughly equivalent ratio. That means more customers for businesses, and less reason to fire anyone even if they did take that approach. - One of the best long-term solutions to equalizing income levels is one that simply isn't being taken (and likely never will in many countries). In every case in which a government has heavily invested in education and public infrastructure, average individual and family incomes have risen, and economies have strengthened. As people become better educated, healthier and happier, they pay it forward.
I get the sense that too many governments are going in the opposite direction: cutting education and public services, while providing more and more kickbacks to rich individuals and corporations under the assumption that the wealth will trickle down. It doesn't, plain and simple.
EDIT: One important side to this, however, is that in cases in which unemployment does rise to any degree due to increases in minimum wage, those who tend to lose their jobs first are the lowest-paid employees--in other words, those who can least afford it. If minimum wage increases are to be of any benefit, they need to be combined with other investments in education, infrastructure and public services.
Agreed. Though, to be fair, while they sell the idea of trickle-down, I doubt many of them actually believe it will. It's been 30+ years and it hasn't so far. It's gone in the opposite direction. Economics is a science, and this is nothing more than a disproven hypothesis. They just want to keep that money for themselves and systematically wipe out the middle class.
Bloody hell, $2.13 minimum wage for tipped jobs? That's outrageous, and a far bigger issue in itself than tipping. How are waiters around the US not storming Capitol Hill in outrage? How can a job be anything like long-term viable if a slow shift drops your daily income by 60% or more?
Slightly more on topic: Tipping is a weird subject, and subject to all kinds of variable unwritten rules. Being from outside the US it's not as natural for me to tip (minimum wage here is about $10.50, tips or no). I generally don't tip if I pay for a meal up-front as in a bar or McDonalds but do if I pay at the end (restaurants etc). It also varies a lot from country-to-country. In the UK most people either don't tip or tip at about 10%, which is a lot lower than the US. When I travel I do generally google tipping in whatever country I'm going to though.
I once saw the UK attitude to customer-staff relationships described as "hypocritical egalitarianism". You all pretend that there is no power imbalance, and are very polite about everything. Both parties pretend that the other is an acquaintance who is doing them a favour. This basically guarantees that customers do not treat servers like crap, but also don't generally tip (or don't tip much) as that breaks the "all equals" rule. It's slightly less true than it used to be, but it's still rare for a customer to complain or be impolite unless something is badly wrong.
*Edit* Also: Any British person who is obliged to say "Have a nice day" as part of their job can and will make it sound like "F*** off and die". Fact.
From my (not exactly super-broad, I admit) experience, if you tip people here in Sweden, they will either be insulted or accept the money and then laugh about what a schmuck you were behind your back. Tipping, though I've done it myself when abroad in the past due to being uncertain about whether you're supposed to locally or not, is just sort of an alien concept to me - I have little feeling for what is sensible to tip and what constitutes as "extra tipworthy" behaviour (you know, beyond obvious things, of course). Travelling to the US would probably mean every dinner out ending with a horrible guilt and awkwardness situation for me
So yeah. I would definitely tip in areas where it's customarily done, and I don't mind it as a concept. But when, like in the states, it becomes a necessity for the waiters/employees to earn money, that just seems like a horribly wrong situation to me - for both parts, at that, even though the tipee of course gets the really bad stuff - and that would be something that's need to be handled.
I don't go to a lot of restaurants here in Aus but on average waiters here get paid around 15 AUD (14 an hour by US dollars) an hour. Tips are appreciated but they aren't required to earn a living. This can also vary depending on where you work. If you're working at a high end restaurant then the customers can probably afford to tip you. Don't expect anything from a cheap joint though.
If the food and service is good yes. If not then no. Last time i went out to eat i tipped the waiter about 10$ for the meal. Lol i remember when my buddy took the mayors order and was tipped 100$.
Getting political here for a moment, I believe that raising the minimum wage (the standard, not specifically waiting minimum wage) does adversely affect employment. However, I also think that the trickle down method is stupid. It doesn't even sound effective.
Getting back on topic, I've heard that in Japan tips are happily excepted, but not the norm. Unlike in Sweden, apparently. I don't honestly understand why servers in Sweden would think you're a schmuck for that. I know, cultural differences and all, but you're getting paid more. Why're you complaining?
Getting back on topic, I've heard that in Japan tips are happily excepted, but not the norm. Unlike in Sweden, apparently. I don't honestly understand why servers in Sweden would think you're a schmuck for that. I know, cultural differences and all, but you're getting paid more. Why're you complaining?
I think if I was working a job were I got paid a living wage and tipping was not the norm, and some ignorant traveler can in and still tipped me on top of that I would call them a schmuck and laugh behind their back.
Seems two questions are being discussed at once. I'll offer my answer to both, should tipping be banned? Yeah why not. Economically the whole idea is, at best, pointless. Should waiters be tipped? In a tipping culture of course. Anyone else thinking of Reservoir Dogs?
Getting back on topic, I've heard that in Japan tips are happily excepted, but not the norm. Unlike in Sweden, apparently. I don't honestly understand why servers in Sweden would think you're a schmuck for that. I know, cultural differences and all, but you're getting paid more. Why're you complaining?
I think if I was working a job were I got paid a living wage and tipping was not the norm, and some ignorant traveler can in and still tipped me on top of that I would call them a schmuck and laugh behind their back.
I'd just be grateful for the extra dough, but whatever.
Seems two questions are being discussed at once. I'll offer my answer to both, should tipping be banned? Yeah why not. Economically the whole idea is, at best, pointless. Should waiters be tipped? In a tipping culture of course. Anyone else thinking of Reservoir Dogs?
Reservoir Dogs dogs is the template for all later tipping conversations. Most of the arguments are ones we've heard in this thread too. Add in the Steve Buscemi makes a great antagonistic git and you've got a classic.
We're in danger of spilling over into the Politics thread with discussions of the minimum wage, but here seems as good a place as any to discuss it. It does seem to go hand-in-hand with other aspects of social support and welfare.
Agreed. Though, to be fair, while they sell the idea of trickle-down, I doubt many of them actually believe it will. It's been 30+ years and it hasn't so far. It's gone in the opposite direction. Economics is a science, and this is nothing more than a disproven hypothesis. They just want to keep that money for themselves and systematically wipe out the middle class.
Yes. I must have missed this one. Trickle-down is bad economics at best, lies and propaganda by the rich to keep them on top at worst.
Tipping is a good system on the chance that you actually get abnormally bad service. One time I had service that was so bad that I left a penny for the tip. I wanted the server to know without a doubt that I didn't simply forget the tip. The server wasn't rude or anything, but just seemed to be very stupid or just didn't care. For example, I asked for a glass of water, but she said they were out of glasses... then that was the end of the conversation and she walked away. She didn't try to look for an alternative, and I don't think she even apologized. I would have taken a bowl of water or something, would have been better than nothing. The restaurant wasn't even busy at the time. It looked like only about a quarter of the tables were occupied. And it wasn't some run-down dump either. It was supposedly a decent restaurant with a decent reputation. Needless to day I never went there again.
But on the whole, I think the system should be abolished and waiters just be paid a higher wage. I would prefer that if for nothing other than simplicity.
I wouldn't mind seeing waiters paid more. However, that would drive up the costs of restaurants, which I wouldn't like. Even so, banning tipping is silly.
It would drive up the cost of restaurants and your food would cost more, but that would be offset by not having to pay extra in tips.
Comments
http://freakonomics.com/2013/06/03/should-tipping-be-banned-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/
I post the link not only because it's very interesting, but because it's a issue very near and dear to my heart at the moment.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
And some restaurants already do this. They don't accept tips, and pay the waiters minimum wage or higher. They're doing fine. http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5888347/one-more-case-against-tipping
And of you think about it, tipping doesn't make sense in the first place. Why do we even have it? So workers get payed based on the quality of the service? Like that has any play in how much someone get tipped. And even if that was the case, why do so few jobs get tipped?
I would also recommend you actually listen to the podcast. I don't think the summery on the page is very representative of the actual information in the podcast, and I can't say I'm a fan of the way the website looks, but it's really quite interesting, I promise. It's more just about tipping than it is a case against tipping.
It really depends where the deficit in waiters' wages is going. Is the lower minimum wage resulting in the restaurant being able to charge less for food, or is it just making it's profit margins wider? I expect a bit of both but more likely the latter. If that's the case then employees should take it up with their employers not bitch about undertipping customers.
Also, it is simply uneccessary that you always have to calculate tips and in many places waiters will only get the tip if you give it as cash (which at least I seldom have).
Edit: This only applies to restaurants with table service. I don't know anyone who tips fast food employees, who are nevertheless underpaid at $7-something per hour.
An excellent summary of both sides can be found here, but my own thoughts can be boiled down to a few points:
- Little evidence exists to suggest that raising the minimum wage has a negative effect on employment. Most businesses tend to raise prices instead, but not to the point of offsetting the higher average income.
- Increased salaries means increased spending. Virtually all research done into disposable income indicates that most people don't save more when earning more; they adjust their lifestyles, and still spend and save on a roughly equivalent ratio. That means more customers for businesses, and less reason to fire anyone even if they did take that approach.
- One of the best long-term solutions to equalizing income levels is one that simply isn't being taken (and likely never will in many countries). In every case in which a government has heavily invested in education and public infrastructure, average individual and family incomes have risen, and economies have strengthened. As people become better educated, healthier and happier, they pay it forward.
I get the sense that too many governments are going in the opposite direction: cutting education and public services, while providing more and more kickbacks to rich individuals and corporations under the assumption that the wealth will trickle down. It doesn't, plain and simple.
EDIT: One important side to this, however, is that in cases in which unemployment does rise to any degree due to increases in minimum wage, those who tend to lose their jobs first are the lowest-paid employees--in other words, those who can least afford it. If minimum wage increases are to be of any benefit, they need to be combined with other investments in education, infrastructure and public services.
Slightly more on topic: Tipping is a weird subject, and subject to all kinds of variable unwritten rules. Being from outside the US it's not as natural for me to tip (minimum wage here is about $10.50, tips or no). I generally don't tip if I pay for a meal up-front as in a bar or McDonalds but do if I pay at the end (restaurants etc). It also varies a lot from country-to-country. In the UK most people either don't tip or tip at about 10%, which is a lot lower than the US. When I travel I do generally google tipping in whatever country I'm going to though.
I once saw the UK attitude to customer-staff relationships described as "hypocritical egalitarianism". You all pretend that there is no power imbalance, and are very polite about everything. Both parties pretend that the other is an acquaintance who is doing them a favour. This basically guarantees that customers do not treat servers like crap, but also don't generally tip (or don't tip much) as that breaks the "all equals" rule. It's slightly less true than it used to be, but it's still rare for a customer to complain or be impolite unless something is badly wrong.
*Edit* Also: Any British person who is obliged to say "Have a nice day" as part of their job can and will make it sound like "F*** off and die". Fact.
So yeah. I would definitely tip in areas where it's customarily done, and I don't mind it as a concept. But when, like in the states, it becomes a necessity for the waiters/employees to earn money, that just seems like a horribly wrong situation to me - for both parts, at that, even though the tipee of course gets the really bad stuff - and that would be something that's need to be handled.
Getting back on topic, I've heard that in Japan tips are happily excepted, but not the norm. Unlike in Sweden, apparently. I don't honestly understand why servers in Sweden would think you're a schmuck for that. I know, cultural differences and all, but you're getting paid more. Why're you complaining?
Should waiters be tipped? In a tipping culture of course.
Anyone else thinking of Reservoir Dogs?
We're in danger of spilling over into the Politics thread with discussions of the minimum wage, but here seems as good a place as any to discuss it. It does seem to go hand-in-hand with other aspects of social support and welfare.
But on the whole, I think the system should be abolished and waiters just be paid a higher wage. I would prefer that if for nothing other than simplicity.
It would drive up the cost of restaurants and your food would cost more, but that would be offset by not having to pay extra in tips.