thoughts on autoroller...

fish0331

Legit or not legit? Seems to me that you might as well EE keeper stats if you use it.

elminster

Not legit. But play the game as you'd like.

Troodon80

Technically, it is more legitimate than EE Keeper since it will only work within the confines of what the game permits when rolling. If rolling 100 on a generic human fighter is possible then auto-roller can probably do it with some time. EE Keeper allows for 25 in every ability, it doesn't discriminate, it doesn't tell you you shouldn't do it. EE Keeper has the benefit of being much quicker.

Having said that, any use of third party utilities means that the action is illegitimate.

I don't think this has ever been a problem for most people. I think most people have a 'Your game, your play through, your character, your enjoyment' mindset.

Nokkenbuer

It's "legit" insomuch as it is safe and works as advertised. Whether it is a "legit" tactic with regards to rolling your score, no: it's arguably cheating. It's a more legitimate and less dubious method of roll augmentation than, say, EEKeeper, however, since (like @Troodon80‌ stated) it works within the confines of the game mechanics rather than manipulating the files themselves to your favor.

I used the autoroller and typically do so on my non-challenge specific playthroughs (including my first one). It can make you feel a bit dirty, so if you're uncomfortable using it, then don't.

Paladin

What is the auto-roller? I typically press the "re-roll" button 100+ times until I get a score of 90 or higher. Is that what is considered illegitimate? I've always considered that part of the excruciating fabric of the character building process of Baldur's Gate.

Nokkenbuer

Paladin said:

What is the auto-roller? I typically press the "re-roll" button 100+ times until I get a score of 90 or higher. Is that what is considered illegitimate? I've always considered that part of the excruciating fabric of the character building process of Baldur's Gate.

Here is information on it: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10937/utility-bg-2-ee-autoroller-v4/p1

It's an external, third-party program which auto-rolls for you by taking control of your mouse for autoclicking. Be sure to read how to stop the autorolling, which I believe is by default "X," otherwise it'll be a bitch regaining control of your mouse.

Yes, I know, it functions like a virus. No, it is not a virus and a lot of people use it. Anyway, I thoroughly scanned and checked it to make sure. 100% safe. The instructions are both on the thread page and in the program.

It's considered "illegitimate" in the respect that you are practically forcing a favorable roll by endlessly rerolling until you get the stats you desire. Theoretically, you can let the program run for days in order to get the best possible results, but at that point you might as well alter the files themselves using EEKeeper. Considering how even in tabletop Dungeons & Dragons, rerolling past a certain number of times (or rerolling at all) is classified as a form of cheating, your incessant rerolls is pretty much illegitimizing your experience anyway. Why not speed up the process?

DreadKhan

Probably the best character generation I have ever heard of is to just assign appropriate stats... yes, munchkins mightbe tempted to abuse this, somits not likely to see much official use, but most DMs dont hesitate to assign stats to NPCs, and in a tabletop situation, anyone choosing ridiculous stats will be the laughing stock, so its kinda selfpolicing. The happy medium is point buy, which works great for almost any build. Rolling stats is about forcing the player to RP at a disadvantage... point buy or just assigning stats are methods that allow you to play what you actually want, which I consider more inclusive.

In other words, play how you like. The game already allows you to switch stats 1 for 1... the game doesnt want you to play something you dont want to. I dont think its unethical to choose stats you could roll. A fighter can max the big 3 on a very low roll, and other than dual classes, few classes really need high stats. I would look askance at someone who assigns themselves anything over 90, unless they are going dualed FD. Why bother?

SCARY_WIZARD

Troodon80 said:

I don't think this has ever been a problem for most people. I think most people have a 'Your game, your play through, your character, your enjoyment' mindset.

Quoted for truth.

Freche

I think it's up to each user if they think its legit or not. Since it re-rolls just the same way as any human would, I think it's legit.
Maybe it should include a user defined roll-limit (roll this many times then stop)?

But then, I most of the time just Ctrl+8 and then manually assign as many points as I want when I create a character. Legit? Maybe not, but who cares?

tennisgolfboll

elminster said:

Not legit. But play the game as you'd like.

This

tennisgolfboll

I love to create characters and part of the fun is to what i roll!

Archaos

I go by the rule: Three 18s, rest base or close to base. It's fairly balanced.

For example with my Cavalier I rolled 18+ STR, 10 DEX, 18 CON, 11 INT, 13 WIS, 18 CHA.

Of course it can be adjusted for certain races.
So for example, if I wanted to EEKeeper an Elf Mage I would go 10 STR, 19 DEX, 16 CON, 18 INT, WIS and CHA as you see fit.

I'd rather EEKeeper some stats to something sensible like the above than make a Fighter with 3 DEX and CHA "because Gloves and the Ring exist".

That kind of min-maxing make my eyes roll so far back, I can see my brain.

And this is why point-buy is superior in video games, because there's no reroll/autoroller nonsense.

luskan

Freche said:

I think it's up to each user if they think its legit or not. Since it re-rolls just the same way as any human would, I think it's legit.
Maybe it should include a user defined roll-limit (roll this many times then stop)?

I just let it run for a minute or two and see what it comes up with. Works pretty well most of the time.

kaguana

I think the autoroller is a good solution if one don't like to sit and re roll by himself so many times till one get what he/she want.
As for legit or not I think it in the way of the eyes of the player if one wanna use it then he/ she should, I for once use because it save me the time to do it myself and then when there is a good roll to miss it because I click too fast, I don't really like to use ctrl+8 it doesn't seem right to me altho I can't say I don't use it from time to time but it also give 18/00 and not normal 18 so it give more STR to some characters that they shouldn't have.

molloy

I think, the stat-rerolling at character creation is one of the worst mechanics in the game.

In game stat increases are rare. For this purpose there exist only very few well-hidden items, so if you get a 1-point-increase, it feels like a pretty big thing. While creating your character on the other hand, it's pretty easy to gain 10 to 15 points with very little effort. Even if you want a really (but not absurdly) high roll, these last few points are still easier to come by, than later in game (if you don't already know, where to find them).
But the process of getting these points is not fun, not educational, not beneficial to you in any way other than giving you these points.

The most sensible thing to do in this situation is to automate this process, which the autoroller is doing. It's doing the same thing you would do, while you don't have to waste your time. So it's not only legit, but the intelligent way to play this part of the game.

That said, I never used an BG-autoroller and never will, since the game is easy enough and these points aren't really needed.

(Obviously I ignored the fact that the autoroller is probably much faster than a rerolling person. So, if the autoroller simulates a person rerolling for decades in a few minutes or seconds, that might counter my argument.)

Freche

molloy said:

Obviously I ignored the fact that the autoroller is probably much faster than a rerolling person. So, if the autoroller simulates a person rerolling for decades in a few minutes or seconds, that might counter my argument.

When set to the "fastest" speed allowed without some manual editing it does about 10 rolls per second on my computer.

Nokkenbuer

The autoroller I linked above does simulate the rolling, rerolling, and storing of rolls that a normal person would do, @molloy. The only difference is that the process is automated, which to some is preferable (and considerable less likely to induce the "dirty" feeling associated with cheating) to manually changing the stats.

You can always manually change your stats by using CTRL+8 with cheat enabled, or downloading a program like EEKeeper which alters the files themselves. I prefer to use the autoroller, since it's easier to understand, less intrusive, and gives me the illusion that I'm not just forcing a favorable roll.

In other words: The autoroller simulates repeated clicks. It functions like a virus that takes over your mouse, except you determine where it autoclicks. (I hate using the "virus" comparison, but that's the best way I can describe it.) The EEKeeper and CTRL+8, on the other hand, is direct manual stat manipulation.

CaloNord

My uncle and I used to play with the skill roll you get the first time is what you have to work with. Now I just like to roll at least 90 or so for my main, I don't use the Autoroller though, although I do have it. I just feel better about it when I do it myself.

DJKajuru

Whether it's a quality or a flaw, I take my characters quite seriously , so much that I'll reroll until they have the attributes that they were supposed to have if they were written for an RPG book.