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The cheapest (unfair) fights and encounters in the BG saga contrasted with the "fair" fights.

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Comments

  • VanDerBergVanDerBerg Member Posts: 143
    Pretty much. Coming back to the subject, I also find some random encounters to be most unfair ones. Especially, as pointed before, encountering wyerns on the way back from Cloakwood mines. Which happens almost every time.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 736
    Umm, has anyone else noticed this thread has completely derailed? I don't think the topic was "bards".

    Is there a really unfair fight against a party of bards?

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    No, because you hardly ever fight bards. A complete list of bards you're likely to fight in the series:
    Silke
    Fuernebol (doppelganger form in Durlag's Tower)
    Meronia.
    Dermin.
    Zara (level 4, in Dorn's ToB quest)

    Joker (Black Pits 2 final battle, and you get the chance to poison him into uselessness)

    Unfair fights... That drow lich Deirex, after I laid two spike traps before the dialogue fired in my first visit. Davaeorn, those times I silenced him from out of sight. The mists in that cabin in the forest of Tethir, with Enhanced Bard Song active.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,476
    VanDerBerg wrote: »
    Pretty much. Coming back to the subject, I also find some random encounters to be most unfair ones. Especially, as pointed before, encountering wyerns on the way back from Cloakwood mines. Which happens almost every time.

    i actually love fighting wyverns in the cloakwood area, they offer great XP and their heads bring in 500 gold each

    now when it comes to unfair getting waylaid by enemies;

    basalisks, especially greater ones, where you have absolutely no time to prepare what so ever

    although with the lesser ones you can use command on them to get 1 free round to prepare yourself, the greater ones require a bit more luck ( although a wand of paralyzation works well here, but its not 100% guaranteed )

    ThacoBellDinoDin
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 770
    edited July 2020
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Umm, has anyone else noticed this thread has completely derailed? I don't think the topic was "bards".

    Is there a really unfair fight against a party of bards?

    BG1NPC also adds one hell of a Bard fight to Garrick's sidequest (which rewards you with a special elven chainmail that doesn't suppress arcane casting)

    ThacoBell
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 922
    Oh, that cabin in the forest of Tethyr was insane. My first party got insta-nuked in there repeatedly.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,476
    Maurvir wrote: »
    Oh, that cabin in the forest of Tethyr was insane. My first party got insta-nuked in there repeatedly.

    the one with all the mists? yeah i remember the first time i went in there, almost had the same case scenario, that is why mass invisibility is your friend with its +4 saving throw bonus to all team mates :)

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    Or, as I noted, EBS. Party-wide immunity to confusion, so the Mist Horrors can't affect you with their Chaos spells. Party-wide immunity to normal weapons, so that nothing in there can hit you with their attacks. The only way they can even hurt you... vampiric mists occasionally cast Larloch's Minor Drain for four damage.

    I much prefer fights that are unfair and terribly cheap in my favor.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,476
    jmerry wrote: »
    Or, as I noted, EBS. Party-wide immunity to confusion, so the Mist Horrors can't affect you with their Chaos spells. Party-wide immunity to normal weapons, so that nothing in there can hit you with their attacks. The only way they can even hurt you... vampiric mists occasionally cast Larloch's Minor Drain for four damage.

    I much prefer fights that are unfair and terribly cheap in my favor.

    kinda hard to do when you don't have a bard on team...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    jmerry wrote: »
    Or, as I noted, EBS. Party-wide immunity to confusion, so the Mist Horrors can't affect you with their Chaos spells. Party-wide immunity to normal weapons, so that nothing in there can hit you with their attacks. The only way they can even hurt you... vampiric mists occasionally cast Larloch's Minor Drain for four damage.

    I much prefer fights that are unfair and terribly cheap in my favor.

    kinda hard to do when you don't have a bard on team...

    Moral of the story, always have a bard on the team.

    sarevok57
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 736
    edited July 2020
    It’s a shame that none of the bards in BG or BG2 appeal characterwise as much as other characters. I try to make room for Garrick but he rarely makes the final cut. Never liked Eldoth or Haer’dalis.

    A good bard npc was one of the best things about SoD.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 922
    Haer'dalis is actually an interesting character. I just never found a use for him in the party.

    sarevok57
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 736
    edited July 2020
    Not really a fan of his character and find all the name calling pretty annoying, though I like that he clocks on to Yoshimo

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,252
    Hm, personally I find Haer Dalis obscenely strong from a combat role standpoint. The offensive spin spell is essentially akin to the fighter whirlwind HLA and as such can mow down some of the tanky enemies out there. Combine that with his ability to cast wizard protections, and you have an almost unfair member of the party, especially in terms of SoA combat.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    I'm always the bard, so I almost never use bard companions.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,068
    Never the bardsmaid, always the bard

    energisedcamelPermidion_Stark
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 845
    Semaj and the automatic webs/stinking clouds in the finale of bg1 can go screw themselves. This is why I always draw the 3 goons out on their own first, never with sarevok at the same time.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 922
    SirBatince wrote: »
    Semaj and the automatic webs/stinking clouds in the finale of bg1 can go screw themselves. This is why I always draw the 3 goons out on their own first, never with sarevok at the same time.

    The problem with that temple are the unclearable traps. However, if you have your thief/cleric detect the traps, you can at least see where they are and avoid them. I do find it mildly annoying that Sarevok and his crew can't set them off, but I get that this is an engine limitation.

    That said, you can turn the tables on them with web. I normally have my party lay down several layers of web, a few seconds apart. This usually lets me separate Sarevok (who always makes his saves) from his buddies (who almost never seem to) In most games, this allows my party to focus on him first (and in an unmodded game, only)

    Note that you need more than one web for this to ensure that they have to make multiple saves. Sadly, this trick rapidly fails to cut the mustard after BG1. Much like sleep, web begins to really only be effective against small hordes in the wilderness.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,865
    edited August 2020
    SirBatince wrote: »
    Semaj and the automatic webs/stinking clouds in the finale of bg1 can go screw themselves. This is why I always draw the 3 goons out on their own first, never with sarevok at the same time.

    You can annoy Sarevok by shooting him from extreme range and immediately backing away. If you then inch back towards him while invisible he will move forward off the dais to give his opening conversation. That will make Semaj teleport out - he's pretty easy to deal with on his own. Going just into Sarevok's sight after that will make him chase you, without activating the others. An arrow of dispelling as a choice for the initial attack can make the battle even easier ...

    Edit: the auto web and stinking cloud traps can trigger at different times - so it's a good idea to have protection when you first approach Sarevok to shoot him.

  • borntodieborntodie Member Posts: 199
    edited August 2020
    The spiders and Web traps in Cloakwood. I doubt that anyone ever survived that on their first playthrough. (If they didn't read a guide.)

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,606
    Putting a Lesser Basilisk right outside the door to the roof of Durlag's Tower feels like a DM's dick move to me. You walk through the door. Your turn to stone. Game over.

    ThacoBellDinoDinBalrog99Cloutier
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    borntodie wrote: »
    The spiders and Web traps in Cloakwood. I doubt that anyone ever survived that on their first playthrough. (If they didn't read a guide.)

    I don't think I've ever died to those spiders. The web traps can be detected by a thief. I'd see your webs and put forth the cramped fight inside the nest itself. That fight's nasty.

  • borntodieborntodie Member Posts: 199
    edited August 2020
    Well yeah, it's just that if you are not aware that you need to detect traps in the open air (which is never needed anywhere else) it's an instant total party kill.
    If you did that in your first playthrough, I bow to you sir.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    borntodie wrote: »
    Well yeah, it's just that if you are not aware that you need to detect traps in the open air (which is never needed anywhere else) it's an instant total party kill.
    If you did that in your first playthrough, I bow to you sir.

    Why would you not always have your thief be detecting traps? It seems suicidal to do anything else. Oh, and there ARE other times when outdoor traps exist. Also with spiders and webs. They aren't all in Cloakwood.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 922
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    borntodie wrote: »
    Well yeah, it's just that if you are not aware that you need to detect traps in the open air (which is never needed anywhere else) it's an instant total party kill.
    If you did that in your first playthrough, I bow to you sir.

    Why would you not always have your thief be detecting traps? It seems suicidal to do anything else. Oh, and there ARE other times when outdoor traps exist. Also with spiders and webs. They aren't all in Cloakwood.

    Yup, specifically the little forest area SE of the bandit camp.

    ThacoBell
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