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Why Cavaliers are Weak

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  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    lunar said:

    Lateralus said:

    lunar said:

    I was like 'wait, aren't cavaliers immune to dire charm?' as I always knew it like this, wondered if it was nerfed by a patch along the way. Turns out it wasn't, so cavaliers are good. They can deal with the sirines like nobody else. (provided they don't fall victim to their kiss) They are not game breakingly powerful, but have good uses. Immunity to fear and the ability to counter fear in others alone is a very solid ability, too.

    Yes provided they keep their distance they are great tanks, oh wait they suck at ranged combat....
    IIRC They can still use throwing daggers or axes to good effect, since they deliver strength damage as well. ^^
    How brave, I guess Alora can tank while the mighty cavilame flicks darts. Dey weak

    lunarNimran
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    Lateralus said:


    How brave, I guess Alora can tank while the mighty cavilame flicks darts. Dey weak

    Throwing daggers not darts. They're pretty good for interrupts and killing those sirens without getting kissed.

    jackjack
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903

    Lateralus said:


    How brave, I guess Alora can tank while the mighty cavilame flicks darts. Dey weak

    Throwing daggers not darts. They're pretty good for interrupts and killing those sirens without getting kissed.
    And when the Sirens run out of arrows and chase the brave cavalier, he runs!

  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    edited September 2014

    Cavaliers aren't weak. It's just you who didn't know how to handle sirens.

    You guys...you just don't get it.

    Here's how the Cavalier SHOULD be:

    PALADIN FEATURES:
    - May wear helmets.
    - May wear any armor and use any weapon.
    - May not exceed Specialization in any weapon class.
    - May achieve Specialization in any fighting style and allocate three slots in Two-Weapon Style.
    - May use Lay On Hands once per day to heal a target for 2 HP/level of Cavalier.
    - May cast Detect Evil once per day (starting at level one with 3 uses).
    - May cast Protection from Evil once per day per level (starts at level one with one use).
    - May Turn Undead as a Cleric two levels lower, starting at level 3.
    - May cast priest spells starting at level 9.
    - +2 bonus to all Saving Throws.
    - Alignment restricted to Lawful Good.
    - Hit die: 1d10.

    Cavalier Advantages:
    - May cast Remove Fear once per day per level (starting at level one with one use).
    - Immune to all fear based spells and effects (gaze, horror, moral failure, traps, etc.).
    - May use the Vanquish Fiend ability once per day per 5 levels (starting at level 5 with one use).
    - May use the Resist Fiend ability once per day per 5 levels (staring at level 5 with one use).

    Vanquish Fiend: By summoning forth a righteous contempt for evil fiends, during the next 5 rounds the Cavalier gains a +6 to hit and damage vs. all demons, devils, and dragons.

    Resist Fiend: By summoning forth stoic resolve and legendary courage, during the next 5 rounds the Cavalier gains 75% resistance to fire, acid, and poison as well as the effects of a Mind Blank spell.

    Cavalier Disadvantages:
    - May not run the Vanquish Fiend and Resist Fiend abilities simultaneously.
    - Does not receive the paladin +2 to all saving throws.
    - May not cast Protection from Evil as the paladin class ability (may still use the spell).
    - May not use ranged weapons (including thrown weapons).

    That's what I've been talking about!

    RAM021
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Funny that those of us who've had no problems with the Cavalier are the ones who don't "get it"!

    Per 2E rules, everything about the Cavalier is supplemental and optional. There really is no "has to be" or "ought to be" about it; implimentation is wholly up to the DM, in this case that means Bioware or Overhaul.
    And honestly, I've DMed 2E for over 25 years. And the two best characters I ever ran were both Cavaliers. And I don't even know what this "Vanquish Fiend" your talking about is. I've never heard of it before.

    elminsterjackjackWigglesKlorox
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    Some people don't walk with the flock, some are content to walk with the sheep their entire lives.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,047
    Lateralus said:

    Some people don't walk with the flock, some are content to walk with the sheep their entire lives.

    Just mod it if you don't like it. SPCL221.spl (along with a few EFF files) and SPCL222.spl handle the cavalier bonuses. No need to compare people who don't have an issue with the kit to sheep.

    Moomintroll
  • fanscalefanscale Member Posts: 81
    Cavalier is immune to poison and fear. I don't remember charm immunity, isn't that elves? When I played the Cavalier I sent him to the front while your Wizard conjures from the rear. His immunity stops him getting damaged by your own spells

  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 782
    Charm immunity's definitely a thing, and a pretty important thing; I managed to make it to almost the end of SoA in a no-reload with a Cavalier. (forgot that ranged Imprisonment in the Fear test QQ) However, I'd probably call it the least important immunity of the lot: in BG1 it saves two charges on the Greenstone amulet from the Sirenes, and... That's basically it. Nobody uses Charm in BG1. In BG2, Helmets of Charm Protection are everywhere, plus I think two weapons and a shield that lets you become immune to charm. Include the fact that you want Chaotic Commands on your Charname until you can't fail the save just makes the charm immunity pretty pointless.

    Now, the Fear immunity is really useful, since even in vanilla dragons like to cast Remove Magic to remove any castings of Remove fear... Again, it becomes less useful as your saves dive into the negatives, but still. Poison immunity is really useful for BG1 solo with those wretched spiders, but almost nothing uses poison in SoA besides... Iron golem gas clouds I guess? Pai'na's spiders too, but those should be easy picking anyways. Immunity to Cloud Kill is nice though, so nice that I felt it was too cheesy to burst a ton on top of my Charname and let my enemies die to the poison.

    Anyways. Cavaliers aren't extraordinarily weak: they're not as strong a front-liner as, say, a Kensai/mage, and there's plenty of times where I wished that I had some sort of Skin ability, but it's a decent kit nonetheless.

    Fenghoang
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    edited September 2014
    Neverused said:

    Now, the Fear immunity is really useful, since even in vanilla dragons like to cast Remove Magic to remove any castings of Remove fear... Again, it becomes less useful as your saves dive into the negatives, but still. Poison immunity is really useful for BG1 solo with those wretched spiders, but almost nothing uses poison in SoA besides... Iron golem gas clouds I guess? Pai'na's spiders too, but those should be easy picking anyways. Immunity to Cloud Kill is nice though, so nice that I felt it was too cheesy to burst a ton on top of my Charname and let my enemies die to the poison.

    There's also a fair number of assassins that use poisoned weapons, though that may be more of a ToB thing. At any rate, antidotes and elixirs of health aren't exactly hard to come by.

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