Why Cavaliers are Weak
Lateralus
Member Posts: 903
Poison immunity does not include spells like Poison and Cloudkill.
Charm immunity does not include Dire Charm or Domination. Who casts just Charm?
I want to be more immune to those things. I've taken the vow of chastity, I've consumed demon poop to build up my immunity. Come on man.
Charm immunity does not include Dire Charm or Domination. Who casts just Charm?
I want to be more immune to those things. I've taken the vow of chastity, I've consumed demon poop to build up my immunity. Come on man.
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Comments
They are just not OP, and this is a big difference.
You got THAT right, pal. My berserker/thief needs no flawed god. Sil is gonna make me a sammich
A cavalier should just not be Dire Charmed by a Siren (or poisoned, for that matter).
Considering that you end up with the Holy avenger, just to name one perk at random, I think it is a reasonable trade off.
(FYI, I am not commenting on how the Rules play, merely providing a plausible explanation of the apparent disparity)
Zerker/thief can wield Holy Avenger once they reach HLA AND select that as an ability (granted that's a given, but it is still a choice that needs to be made). They are also immune to charm only twice per day, upon use of an ability that, if not necessary, could be saved for a better encounter.
I hardly see that as a one for one trade off.
Cavaliers are alignment restricted and race restricted. They also can't use ranged weapons, a factor that can be mitigated mid game in BG2. For that, they get immunity to poisons and charm. They get Holy Avenger. The get immunity to fear which is no small ability. They can also cast remove fear, again something that isn't a small by any stretch of the imagination. They get a natural resistance to fire and acid which stacks with other resistances. AND they get +3 versus demons and dragons (two of the more powerful enemies in the game).
I am not saying they are overpowered. I am merely saying that the perks make for a nice tidy package.
I suspect that you got bit by the lack of protection from Dire Charm. That sucks. But I think it is jading your perspective to the abilities in totality.
Either way, you are entitled to your opinion.
The fear thing is nice, and a given for that kit.
The kit is fatally flawed because they cant stand toe to toe with a demon and stand a chance. Go ahead, hit level 8 and tank Albert. Lemme know how that works out for ya.
Edit
Or try to resist the charms of a succubus. Lol
Of course I'm not much interested in the power stuff; I like ROLE PLAYING the Cavalier....
Anyways, if you are immune to the spell Charm Person, that should be explicitly stated.
As for the Cloudkill spell, if you think you should be immune to the damage, just edit via Keeper. *shrug*
Either way, if I turn @bengoshi's reasoning around, and ask myself whether the Cavalier with 'full' charm/poison immunity would be OP, I think my answer is would be 'no', at least not if I compare with other classes. The Inquisitor would continue to be the most powerful Paladin kit I think, and there would still be other more powerful classes and kits (Berserker, Sorcerer, Mage, Blade for example, as well as a number of multiclass combos).
The 20% resist to fire and acid is very beneficial, more so than the magical poison immunity. Remove fear is also nice, plus it gets all of the regular paladins abilities as well unlike the Inquisitor.
It is my opinion that it doesn't beat the immunity to level drain and hold that the undead hunter get though.
Most of their benefits do not come into play until BG2 though, so they can be considered weak in BG1. They curve upward as the trilogy progresses though.
It's like saying that Figher/Magic Users are weak because they can't get weapon mastery. Yes, it's a nice to have but no one would agree that F/M are a weak class.
It sucks sometimes when our expectations of a class or ability or character in general fails. It doesn't mean that that an otherwise well rounded character is weak because of one specific failing (unless it is something pretty big, which this isn't).
And also in sympathy to @Lateralus - I've had moments where characters didn't perform the way I expected and then felt that moment of disillusionment. It can be a hard let down. I feel their pain. I just hope that one let down does not sour experience with what is otherwise a pretty solid character, particularly if they've invested enough time in said character to get to that particular realization.
Plus, I like underdogs.
-8 AC
25 strength
0 Thac0 (-7 with strength bonus)
102 health
1d20 (crushing) attack
2 APR
and immunity to normal weapons.
I disagree with you in that you definitely can stand a chance against him.
The items I am using are
Oil of Speed, Varscona, Full Plate Mail, Balduran's Helm, Balduran's Cloak, Shield of the Falling Stars (a large shield +1 would be just as effective and I forgot about Pellan's shield since it would be even better here), Ring of protection +2, Destroyer of the Hills, and Boots of Haste (which doesn't really do anything I just like to run really fast). I didn't use any potions of mind focusing which could also bring my AC down further (and exclude the need to use at least one of the harder to find magical items I have listed here). Likewise there are other strength potions and stuff like the potion of power/heroism that I could have used.
I also could have been using either of the gauntlets for weapon skill/expertise and forgot about them.
In some of the battles I used Draw Upon Holy Might (innate ability), in others I didn't. I'd say about half of them. I also forgot about casting Protection From Evil.
Here is a screenshot of my equipment and character. Despite obviously using 5 of the books (I didn't bother with the tome for wisdom but bothered with charisma and intelligence for some reason) and getting a 90 as an initial roll all of my stats are acquirable in the game.
Results were 7/8 battles I killed him. My best result was 57 health remaining, my worst (besides being dead) was 2 health (two battles had results that were in the 20's and the rest were in the 40 health remaining range).
Either way he hits like a tank but he is definitely beatable by a cavalier.
LeBron? Kevin Love? Kyrie Irving?
If that is weak, then what are my Knicks?????
1. Immunity to poisons is a lifesaver against spiders and wyverns, the former of which is both a frequent and deadly enemy in BG1.
2. The ability to not only resist fear, but also to instantly cure it among your party members prevents them from simply running around and getting slaughtered anytime an enemy spellcaster casts "horror" - which a substantial number of casters in the game will do.
And Centeol's pets are gonna make you lunch. :-P
Tested it and it looks like dire charm is being blocked.
If it is intended then does that mean the Helm of Charm Protection should only protect against charm person also? That would turn an awesome item into a not much better than regular helm...
Hands down the best Paladin is the Inquisitor though. I didn't think it so at first, but I started keeping Keldorn around...noticed his abilities being VERY useful. DM at x2 level? Hell yes. TS pretty much at will? Please sir, may I have some more?
I'm still more of a Wizard player...and a very good one I like to think. XD