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Are Party No-Reload Runs a Challenge?

I've never tried a No-Reload Run before. But I think a solo run might be too difficult. So, to ease myself in, I was planning a No-Reload Run with a party.

Is this still reasonably challenging?

Comments

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 211
    Absolutely. There is also the minimal reload variant, where you only reload if Charname dies.

    JuliusBorisovjackjackCrevsDaak
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,826
    Well, if you look at the number of failed attempts of party no-reload runs by many and many of us here, your doubts will be vanished: yes, it's a challenge, and a good one!

    In fact, due to the exceptional speed of levelling up when soloing, a party no-reload run can be much more difficult than a solo one.

    Of course, several classes/kits make a solo run the hardest (a wizard slayer, a druid, a monk in BG1) but overall, after making many solo- and party- runs, I tend to think that a party no-reload run is as challenging as it can be.

    FinneousPJBlackraven
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    If you:
    1) Don't use mods like SCS
    2) Resurrect party member
    3) Use Charname as a ranged attacker (or a ranged spell caster)
    4) Abuse potions of invisibility (and stuff like that) for charname
    5) Give to Charname some useful items to prevent effects like charme, confusion, chaos, stun and similar.

    Than you can definitely have a no reload run.
    It's going to be a challenge, but not a too hard challenge.

    Remember to be careful with charname, because the only rule in this simple no reload attempt is: Charname must not die!!! The other party members are expendable.

    Soloing makes most battles a lot easier, but one single mistake can kill you, while without SCS with a party you can stay in the backlines almost all the time without risk.

    Blackraven
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    edited August 2014
    Here are my House Rules for no-reload runs:

    - don't adjust abilities when you roll character (no min-maxing, but re-roll if you must; really helps with immersion when your character has handicaps)
    - CORE RULES (including non-maximum HP rolls, spell learning chance etc.)
    - NO-RELOAD! (resurrecting NPCs within game okay; if they are chunked, disintegratedx etc., then they are gone.)
    - **SCS** (Essential!!! -- AI and limited encounter improvements only, but no rule-changes: e.g. smarter mage AI & smarter basilisks, but no 'improved spiders' or no insta-buff all mages)
    - no "rest until healed" (cast heal spells after 8 hour rest --not 16 hours for free-- or use potions: makes dungeons tricky!)
    - no "recharging" items (Shield amulet, you say. It's gone once all the charges are gone; no sell/re-buy)
    - avoid munchkinisms (you will know when you munchkin!)


    These rules make an excellent challenge:
    - I ONLY die when I am careless or make a mistake; so you *can* win
    - I only won BG1 twice in years and never yet made it to the end of TOB with no-reload.
    (I usually play with a full party.)

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I definitely think a party no-reload is harder than a solo no-reload.

    Of course if you're playing a gimped character like a solo Wizard Slayer or something like that it's going to be more difficult than with a party. But in my opinion one should think about winning the game with a powerful character first before trying something even more challenging.

    For example I'm pretty sure a F/M/T is easier to solo no-reload than anything else in a party no-reload.

    JuliusBorisovjackjackFinneousPJ
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited August 2014
    Yes, for the reasons folks have outlined for you here (see @bengoshi's reply in particular). I'm currently enjoying what I call a "minimal reload" run with a custom MP party of six that has very modest ability scores, using an offbeat assortment of classes and weapons profs. There's plenty of tension to every encounter, believe me.

    Strict no-reload is extremely unforgiving. There's so many ways for the PC to die in this game--and it can happen sometimes due to unlucky dice no matter how competent a strategist you are and how well you execute your battle plans. Maybe I'm overgeneralizing my own experience, but it seems to me that you'll rarely if ever complete a strict no-reload game. So as you can see from the responses here, people tend to customize their own individual approach to the concept according to taste.

    When I play "no-reload" my rule is to reload only in the event of 1) the PC's death, or 2) because of a technical glitch or game engine limitation issue (the latter can come up depending on the concept for the game). But otherwise I play Core Rules difficulty and accept the results of all outcomes including level-ups, spell scribing attempts, and NPC deaths.

    JuliusBorisovjackjackBlackraven
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 211
    When I want to do more realistic attribute scores for my charname I allow myself to rearrange the stats rolled, but not change the concrete values. For instance a fighter roll of:

    STR: 15
    CON: 7
    DEX: 16
    INT: 17
    WIS: 12
    CHA: 13

    could become:

    STR: 17
    CON: 15
    DEX: 16
    INT: 13
    WIS: 7
    CHA: 12

    In my oppinion this yields stats that are very much like the stats of companions. It is a nice way to prevent yourself from extreme powergaming stats, while retaining a well functioning character.

    [Deleted User]jackjackLemernisCrevsDaak
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I don't see the problem with resting in dungeons. Some, like Chateau Irenicus, make little sense, as you are frantically trying to escape, but resting in a dungeon with someone standing guard is an old D&D staple. I do make sure to clear out the current floor first, then make camp near the entrance to the next level.

    ArdulCrevsDaakJuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited August 2014
    The practical reality in that world is that spellcasting requires rest for re-memorization. If we were actually there inhabiting that world, we'd have to constantly be weighing out the risks of taking a rest period (not sleeping necessarily, but stopping for spellcasters to meditate or pray, etc.) versus proceeding without the use of certain spells. And just as it occurs for us as players, so would it occur for inhabitants of Toril, no?

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,152
    Yes and no. I find playing with a party in BG1 very difficult, while playing with a party in BG2 is much easier. I made an all clerics no reload run, and it was very easy, I only had 2 deaths (from party memebrs, my PC never died), one in Irenicus' Dungeon and the other in the Mind Flayer dungeons. I didn't ran through ToB since by mid-game SoA I was already considering quitting (I wanted to write a journal, but got bored doing so in Chateau Irenicus). I prefer solo'ing the whole saga, I find it easier in early game BG1 (where 80% of the deaths happen) that when playing with a party.

    Lately, I have been role-playing a lot, after being a deviant power-gamer before (that doesn't mean I don't use good tactics (no exploits, very little cheese) in combat, since playing with SCS+my own level adding utility is a little bit rough sometimes).

    BUT they are still a challenge, if you don't take the right protections you can die even being a level 40 character and facing a Ghast, same as you can die being a level 49 Mage, try resting in a dungeon (Spelhold with SCS' component "Irenicus takes party's items) with NO SPELLS left and NO EQUIPMENT, I was killed by some stupid shadows or IDK what, because I couldn't protect myself >.>

    jackjack
  • old_jolly2old_jolly2 Member Posts: 453
    Well ladies and gentleman , to fullfill your need for difficult RPG gaming , IWD exists. ftwdk , in config.exe
    there is Heart of Fury difficulty setting. With that setting , do whatever you wish , save/use bugs/etc. , which I think a game must give me , a total freedom so that I can enjoy good strategy making my heart free. I don't look at walkthroughs , only game manuals if applicable , and thus finding a bug is even fun. Slaying Yxunomei was really hardcore , not to mention 1290391203 ghouls before and the insane church of Yuan-ti's. I couldn't say the same for IWD 2 though , I didn't finish that game because I bored too easily when I capped my level at the goblin caves , which I presume very early game. I just did not level up to see how far I can handle the pressure. Then it wrote : 'Godlike'... :(

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    @Alastair8330 Minimal reload party-runs can succeed without removing the factory-loaded XP cap. Which might be considered a desirable feature. On the other hand BBear and others have shown that very low-level solo characters can complete BG1.

    I always cut myself one particular bit of slack which others might object to but...so what?? It perfectly suits my playstyle and my sense of the most-likely "realism" of a Sword and Sorcery continuum. I am talking Algernon's Cloak, here. For me that is a must have for Imoen and I simply reload until Pickpocket Succeeds appears and from then on I am all in favor of hardcore rigors [never tried SCS].

    An important point ,imho, is deciding at what level you want to recruit your early NPCs. Recently I am favoring getting Charname to level 2-2, usually with Imoen who has hit Level 4 Thief, before adding other party members. At that point Jaheira will be available as a solid Level 4-4 Fighter/Druid. It will also help recruiting Viconia or Branwen near Level 5 so you can get Animate Dead working ASAP--probably the single best defensive measure for a full-party run.

    You might also want to consider stopping one or two short of a full-party. Somehow a party of 5 just seems to be a more workable number for me. Particularly if you can RP some premise in which a 6th NPC can be added for areas that really benefit from immediate shut-down powers [for example: Peldvale in Chap.3]

    High Constitution, particular with Fighter [single, multi or dual-class] Charname will help offset the main challenge of Full-party run.... Charname's low HP. Enjoy!

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