Pale Master kit for Sorcerers?
shawne
Member Posts: 3,239
I'm wondering whether we might be able to see this as an option somewhere down the line - similar to the Dragon Disciple in terms of disadvantages (one less spell cast per level per day), but with more of an emphasis on undead/necromancy. So instead of a breath weapon, you'd have a paralyzing touch attack (which, at higher levels, could be reconfigured into a "save vs. death or be instantly killed" attack), AC bonuses from "bone skin", and Animate Dead as a special ability...
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I like your ability ideas. Animate Dead as a special ability would be sweet! This helps with the 'one less spell cast per level per day' disadvantage. And as the character gains levels the ability could level up like the Totemic Druids... totems in BGEE. Could also give him Summon Ghoul/Ghast, like Tiax's ability, or Summon Zombie/Revenant...
Great idea, shawne!
I'd also really like one or two more DD colour variants (green and white DD's would be my preferences, in that order). Unless there's another cool idea for a Sorcerer kit.
Yes, @TRoar, I reckon it makes sense for a Pale Master to be disallowed from Illusion spells, for consistency with the specialist-Mage type of Necromancer. But no, not instead of losing one cast/day and with your other suggestion about an Improved Animate Dead ability.
A Sorcerer kit's special abilities need to be relevant from BG1 to BG2:ToB, so it makes sense that they gradually improve in power and/or gain more uses/day. However, the proposed Pale Master already has a touch attack which will level (and presumably increase in uses/day as well), and remember that Animate Dead is already a spell which levels moderately well (summoning stronger Skeleton Warriors at higher levels), so further improving the Animate Dead ability by letting it become Summon Ghast (and at high levels, probably Summon Greater Ghoul, etc.) would be really powering-up this kit. If you want Improved Animate Dead, then I reckon it's fair that the Pale Master loses Illusion and still loses one cast/day (on the basis that he's "so focused on his special abilities"). Alternatively, if you want to give him back his one cast/day as compensation for losing the Illusion school, then I reckon you ought to be satisfied with merely the ordinary Animate Dead (which is already a pretty powerful ability, if you eventually get multiple uses/day!) One or the other, please, but not both.
I suggest an alignment restriction as well: I don't see how a Pale Master could be any sort of Good, nor any sort of Lawful.
Imo, restrictions can add tons of uniqueness. I like the no illusions dealio.
Losing one cast/day is actually a pretty big hit for a Sorcerer, and in this case (unlike the Dragon Disciple) it hasn't been proposed to give stat boosts and resistances as additional compensation on top of the special abilities. Hmm ... I'm coming around to thinking that Pale Master does need a little more than the special touch attack and an ordinary Animate Dead. Maybe indeed your Improved Animate Dead actually is justifiable, or alternatively some relevant resistance ... for example, it might make sense for the proposed Pale Master kit to gain immunity to Death magic (analogous to a DD's Fire Resistance), or to gain automatically-successful saving throws against Death/Poison/Paralysis (which is a broader range of protection, but sometimes even a successful save still lets through half-damage). Interesting thought. I'd be cautious about a Summon Lich ability because Liches normally know a lot of high-level spells - it might negate the key concept that Sorcerers work with a very limited list of spells known, if they could simply summon something which could cast whatever spells they didn't know themselves. However, Summon Vampire probably wouldn't be a disproportionate power in ToB, and of course is thematically very appropriate. So yes, I quite like the Summon Vampire idea, and (by analogy with Elemental summonings) it could be even be allowed a chance of summoning a pair of vampires (25%?) or an extra-strong vampire (5%?). Obviously you're both correct, so that's an interesting issue. Do Sorcerers have no school restriction because their magic is based on natural talent rather than schooling (in which case the same ought to apply for all Sorcerers including kits), or do Sorcerers have no school restrictions because there hasn't previously been a variety of Sorcerer who was also a "Specialist" in a particular school? (A DD may be said to have a "Fire specialty", but Fire isn't one of the "schools of magic" in 2nd edition, so a DD isn't a "Specialist" in the same sense as a Pale Master, who is clearly a sort-of-Necromancer.) I've no idea what PnP rules say about such things (if anything ... quite possibly nothing in the case of 2nd edition rules!)
I do think losing the Illusion school would make the kit more interesting, because it justifies making the special abilities a little livelier (or rather, deadlier) in compensation. A kit should always remain recognisable as a member of the same class as the unkitted prototype, but within that limitation it's more attractive when both the advantages and the disadvantages of the kit are pretty distinctive.
Sorcerers can cast any spell simply because their magic is innate rather than learned - that's why INT doesn't affect their casting ability. So school restrictions wouldn't make sense for them or for any Sorcerer kit, because they don't have to "give up" anything in order to call on their power.
The "opposition school(s)" to a particular Specialist Mage are meant to be the ones most opposite in style to the Mage's own school - that's what determines which schools are opposition and which are allowed. Thus it's quite consistent to suppose that the same opposition school(s) could apply in the case of a Sorcerer whose innate ability leaned strongly in one direction.
By the way, remember that INT doesn't affect the casting ability of Mages either - it affects only their learning ability. Boost INT with a potion and even a rather dim Mage can learn more (and higher-level) spells, but then even after the potion wears off they'll still be able to cast those new spells.
But anyway, we're arguing details here. I think everyone who has commented at all is basically in favour of your proposal. There's room for more Sorcerer kits, and I reckon Pale Master ought to be a serious contender.
I hope you don't mind us throwing these ideas out in the open, because, as Gallowglass wrote...: ... I really like your idea, and am keen to nut out the concept, and tap Beamdog on the shoulder. Have you given any more thought to how you would like the Pale Master to shape up, both in terms of flavor and the details?
And like all mod kits, the thing you absolutely have to avoid is anything that could unbalance or break the game. Summoning level-draining vampires or liches would be out of the question.
I'd suggest looking to how Beamdog implemented the Dragon Disciple as a useful, if not perfect, example of translating 3E prestige classes to 2E kits. When you look at Pale Masters in "Neverwinter Nights 2", it's pretty straightforward: standard wizard/sorcerer progression (in that particular game, you only get new spells every other level, but given the obvious disparity between a Wizard PM and a Sorcerer PM I'd just convert that to BG's "one less spell cast per level per day"), plus bonuses to saves and AC, Animate Dead once per day, and the Undead Graft (paralyzing touch attack, upgraded to save-or-die at level 20) being the equivalent of the Dragon Disciple's breath weapon.
Fair enough on all accounts. I guess my mind kind of got a bit carried away, haha.
PALE MASTER: Necromancy is usually a poor choice for arcane spellcasters -- those who really want to master the deathless arts almost always pursue divine means. However, an alternative exists for those who desire power over undead but refuse to give up their arcane craft completely. Enter the pale master, who draws on a font of special lore that provides a macabre power all its own.
Advantages:
- 1st level: +2 bonus to AC.
- 5th level: May use Animate Dead once per day.
ANIMATE DEAD: As per the mage and cleric spell, summons an allied skeleton warrior to serve the caster.
- 6th level: May use Undead Graft twice per day.
UNDEAD GRAFT: The pale master touches a target with a ghoulish hand. Target must save vs. death or be held for 5 rounds.
- 8th level: Gains +2 to saves vs. death.
- 10th level: Undead Graft forces a save at -1.
- 12th level: Immunity to hold, stun and poison.
- 14th level: Undead Graft forces a save at -2.
- 15th level: May use Create Boneguard once per day.
CREATE BONEGUARD: Summons a powerful boneguard to serve the caster for 2 hours.
- 16th level: May use Deathless Touch twice per day.
DEATHLESS TOUCH: The pale master touches a target with a life-snuffing hand. Target must save vs. death or die instantly.
- 18th level: Undead Graft forces a save at -3.
- 20th level: Immunity to death magic, cold, level drain and ability drain.
- Hit Die: d6
Disadvantages:
- May cast one fewer spell per level per day.
- Alignment restricted to non-good.
- Incurs a -2 penalty to Charisma.
- Race restricted to human.
Now the question becomes: can it be done (ie: is it technically feasible)? @elminster? @Tresset?
The kit should be quite simple to make. I could probably make the abilities and get them to work, but I often fail hard at making WeiDU do what I need it to, and I haven't claimed a prefix either, which is kind of a necessity to avoid mod clashes. If anyone's kind enough to help me compile the kit, I could get to work on the necessary files.
Another problem is that the Dragon Disciple's -1 spell per level seems to be hardcoded - I've scoured the entire list of 2das and failed to find the relevant table. As a result, that disadvantage isn't implemented, which means this class is probably overpowered. It may still be possible to create the disadvantage, but that's unfortunately beyond my skill. If anyone wants to look over the files and fix my noob coding, they're welcome to, and in fact I'd be highly grateful.
Also I suggest a mod move this thread to the modding section.
Say, Animate Dead as a level 3 spell, Create Boneguard as a level 4 or 5, up to maybe a level 8 spell that creates a small army of Skeleton Warriors?
There are a few minor issues with placement: Animate Dead initially turns up as a Known Spell rather than an Innate Ability, but if you choose Animate Dead as an actual spell on level-up, the extra casting gets shunted to Innate. Also, Undead Graft turns up in the Innates, but Deathless Touch appears after the 10th-level Known Spells.
Still, this is off to a phenomenal start. Well done, @Artemius_I!
I remembered noting that the spells showed up in the wrong section but because they were functional I decided to leave them till later. I forgot completely about that part. I'll get to fixing it right now. Go ahead. I'm skeptical about the mod's current state, and I can't guarantee it won't do weird things, so I'd indicate that it's not a stable release yet.
Also, the kit description says you get two uses of the Graft and Deathless Touch abilities; I cheated my PM to level 28, but only got one use of each.