I've said several times that I'm in the OP's camp. I find BG1 a better balanced game between classes, with BG making magic over-powered. BG1 has a far more plausible and consistent world: once BG2 moves into other planes I find my ability to "get into it" in a role-playing sense diminished. SoA, and especially ToB feel much gamier, I'm thinking about the order to cast anti-magic spells whereas in 1 I can imagine walking through a wood and being set upon by a pack of wolves. I prefer the structure of 1, with so much more freedom to explore: the only time in 1 you're really stuck in a series of actions which have to go in the same order is Cloakwood, whereas in BG2 there's the huge section from Spellhold to the Saughain city and the Underdark where you're forced to follow a set path. And by the time you reach late SoA/ToB it's great if you're mathematically minded - "wow, if I dual-wield Corm Faeyr and Belm in the off hand I can get x apr and hit for y amount!" but for me that takes away the role-playing aspect. Each to their own, and I do appreciate that many people prefer BG2 to 1 but for me the earlier parts of the game are more enjoyable. I've finished BG1 many times, I started SoA many times but only finished it two or three and I'm not sure I've ever finished ToB. And I particularly like BG1 feeling dangerous: one slip and you're dead, whereas by BG2 you're so powerful it's easier to recover from a mistake.
I just love Baldur's Gate 1. I wouldn't want to repeat myself, or what others have said. I'll post my comment about all the IE games, which summarizes my opinion about them all: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/539804/#Comment_539804 One thing that I would like to mention is the engine of BG2, which prevents me from playing BGEE. I don't like how the characters look and move (e.g. godawful two handed sword-knees to the ground-swing). Since the release of BGEE I've been waiting for a mod (similar to Infinity Animations) to change those animations. For now I will continue to venture through the Sword Coast, as it was in 1998.
BG1 had to be amazing... Or BG2 would not have been made...
I too like the low level play, random wandering about, moving from open maps to crowded city scapes.
BG2 feels crowded. You start in a dungeon, then in a city. There is more undercover fighting, and running away is less of an option without going to another map (which can mean innocents getting immolated)
I like a bit a room, when I pop off a fireball or a skull trap.
But as for pacing? The gaps between levels mean that pacing in BG2 is not going to be that hard to achieve.
BG1 has awful pacing. NPCs can only be picked up at level 1, 4 or 6 for example. How many of us abandon Alora for instance, who can be 4 levels behind Imoen at this point in the game. But then, it does everything else pretty well.
BG1 has awful pacing. NPCs can only be picked up at level 1, 4 or 6 for example. How many of us abandon Alora for instance, who can be 4 levels behind Imoen at this point in the game. But then, it does everything else pretty well.
As much as I love BG1, I won't pretend that it's perfect - the placing of late-appearing NPCs like Alora and Tiax is indeed one of the standout flaws in the game.
However, the few flaws that BG1 has can usually be corrected by mods - for example, there are components of the NPC Project that relocate Alora to Gullykin and Tiax to Beregost, which makes them both much more viable (heck, it's actually convinced me that Tiax is one of the best NPCs in the game).
By contrast, the flaws in BG2 (i.e: its lineality and repetitiveness, its bias toward magic) are too ingrained and far-reaching to be corrected by any mods.
Magic items were rarer and thus felt more important.
This is a point that I've touched on in my own critiques of BG2.
Many people will argue that the greater volume of magic items is one of the selling points of BG2, but I feel that the "less is more" approach of BG1 makes the items more appreciable. For example, a simple +1 weapon can be effective all the way through BG1, but by the time that you escape from Irenicus' dungeon in BG2, you are already encountering enemies that are immune to +1 weapons. Likewise, potions of normal healing very quickly become insufficient to address healing needs in BG2, and are eclipsed by potions of Extra healing. The same is also true for many lower level spells, which are reduced to being insufficient or ineffective.
In a nutshell, BG2 feels to me like a continual rat race to cast aside your equipment and find newer, better replacements.
I agree definitely with the point of magic weapons. I think it was a sign of just the spiraling out of control the leveling and balancing BG2 experienced. As someone pointed out previously, 2nd edition rules weren’t meant to go much past level 10. That’s why BG1 felt so tight, levels were really only going to about 8, things were very fine tuned, the mechanics were designed to all work perfectly together through that range. BG2 everything felt like it needed to be artificially ramped up.
Tough enemies weren’t about having well-made characters with solid tactics any more, it was more “Memorize the specific counter spell” and then they folded like superman on laundry day. I remember being swimming in +5 weapons that when I was dual wielding Minsc I would just look at them all and think “does it matter which one? Does any one have a slightly better on hit effect?”. By the end I didn’t really care about my weapons, I didn’t really care about tactics, once you’re in the 20 levels the game mechanics and balances have long since flown out the window. Fights basically devolved into my melee characters wailing away, if they weren’t doing damage my mages would alternate breach/pierce/ruby ray of reversal until it was broken down and dead, I couldn’t even be bothered to figure out which one I needed, I just figured “Meh one of these will strip whatever I need to away”.
Even though I enjoyed playing out fights in BG1 much more, I kind of like that BG2 ToB eventually devolved into that. It creates kind of a meta narrative that links your feelings about the game with the protagonists feelings about the world. I imagine that your character just gets so fed up with it all and is so overwhelmingly powerful that he just gets desensitized to the world around him (You know… like an actual god would feel…..), which mimics how I feel about the fights as they come.
It’s nice to think back to 100 hours before where your thought process was “oh man a wolf! PAUSE! Ok how will I do this…..” and “Oh boy! A +2 weapon!!!! Wow I am…… a……. god….!” And now it’s “Oh joy, another +5 weapon, let me throw in on the pile…..” and “oh look a lich….. \eyeroll, Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath…… I don’t have time for this…. Oh joy, a wild surge dropped a cow on Jan….. \Ironic LOL”
I like Rangers, and Archers, and Ranger/Clerics, and BG1 is an open environment.
Moreover, it is literally one in which you can chuck the storyline entirely for as long as you want, and make a nice living as a mountain and forest hunter of irksome beasties like anhkeg and wyverns and winter wolves (OK, and the occasional vampire wolf and ettercap - but they need to be made dead, too; some skillful outdoors type has to do it.)
Comments
I find BG1 a better balanced game between classes, with BG making magic over-powered. BG1 has a far more plausible and consistent world: once BG2 moves into other planes I find my ability to "get into it" in a role-playing sense diminished. SoA, and especially ToB feel much gamier, I'm thinking about the order to cast anti-magic spells whereas in 1 I can imagine walking through a wood and being set upon by a pack of wolves.
I prefer the structure of 1, with so much more freedom to explore: the only time in 1 you're really stuck in a series of actions which have to go in the same order is Cloakwood, whereas in BG2 there's the huge section from Spellhold to the Saughain city and the Underdark where you're forced to follow a set path. And by the time you reach late SoA/ToB it's great if you're mathematically minded - "wow, if I dual-wield Corm Faeyr and Belm in the off hand I can get x apr and hit for y amount!" but for me that takes away the role-playing aspect.
Each to their own, and I do appreciate that many people prefer BG2 to 1 but for me the earlier parts of the game are more enjoyable. I've finished BG1 many times, I started SoA many times but only finished it two or three and I'm not sure I've ever finished ToB.
And I particularly like BG1 feeling dangerous: one slip and you're dead, whereas by BG2 you're so powerful it's easier to recover from a mistake.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/539804/#Comment_539804
One thing that I would like to mention is the engine of BG2, which prevents me from playing BGEE. I don't like how the characters look and move (e.g. godawful two handed sword-knees to the ground-swing). Since the release of BGEE I've been waiting for a mod (similar to Infinity Animations) to change those animations. For now I will continue to venture through the Sword Coast, as it was in 1998.
I too like the low level play, random wandering about, moving from open maps to crowded city scapes.
BG2 feels crowded. You start in a dungeon, then in a city. There is more undercover fighting, and running away is less of an option without going to another map (which can mean innocents getting immolated)
I like a bit a room, when I pop off a fireball or a skull trap.
But as for pacing? The gaps between levels mean that pacing in BG2 is not going to be that hard to achieve.
BG1 has awful pacing. NPCs can only be picked up at level 1, 4 or 6 for example. How many of us abandon Alora for instance, who can be 4 levels behind Imoen at this point in the game. But then, it does everything else pretty well.
However, the few flaws that BG1 has can usually be corrected by mods - for example, there are components of the NPC Project that relocate Alora to Gullykin and Tiax to Beregost, which makes them both much more viable (heck, it's actually convinced me that Tiax is one of the best NPCs in the game).
By contrast, the flaws in BG2 (i.e: its lineality and repetitiveness, its bias toward magic) are too ingrained and far-reaching to be corrected by any mods.
Many people will argue that the greater volume of magic items is one of the selling points of BG2, but I feel that the "less is more" approach of BG1 makes the items more appreciable. For example, a simple +1 weapon can be effective all the way through BG1, but by the time that you escape from Irenicus' dungeon in BG2, you are already encountering enemies that are immune to +1 weapons. Likewise, potions of normal healing very quickly become insufficient to address healing needs in BG2, and are eclipsed by potions of Extra healing. The same is also true for many lower level spells, which are reduced to being insufficient or ineffective.
In a nutshell, BG2 feels to me like a continual rat race to cast aside your equipment and find newer, better replacements.
Tough enemies weren’t about having well-made characters with solid tactics any more, it was more “Memorize the specific counter spell” and then they folded like superman on laundry day. I remember being swimming in +5 weapons that when I was dual wielding Minsc I would just look at them all and think “does it matter which one? Does any one have a slightly better on hit effect?”. By the end I didn’t really care about my weapons, I didn’t really care about tactics, once you’re in the 20 levels the game mechanics and balances have long since flown out the window. Fights basically devolved into my melee characters wailing away, if they weren’t doing damage my mages would alternate breach/pierce/ruby ray of reversal until it was broken down and dead, I couldn’t even be bothered to figure out which one I needed, I just figured “Meh one of these will strip whatever I need to away”.
Even though I enjoyed playing out fights in BG1 much more, I kind of like that BG2 ToB eventually devolved into that. It creates kind of a meta narrative that links your feelings about the game with the protagonists feelings about the world. I imagine that your character just gets so fed up with it all and is so overwhelmingly powerful that he just gets desensitized to the world around him (You know… like an actual god would feel…..), which mimics how I feel about the fights as they come.
It’s nice to think back to 100 hours before where your thought process was “oh man a wolf! PAUSE! Ok how will I do this…..” and “Oh boy! A +2 weapon!!!! Wow I am…… a……. god….!” And now it’s “Oh joy, another +5 weapon, let me throw in on the pile…..” and “oh look a lich….. \eyeroll, Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath, Dragon’s Breath…… I don’t have time for this…. Oh joy, a wild surge dropped a cow on Jan….. \Ironic LOL”
Moreover, it is literally one in which you can chuck the storyline entirely for as long as you want, and make a nice living as a mountain and forest hunter of irksome beasties like anhkeg and wyverns and winter wolves (OK, and the occasional vampire wolf and ettercap - but they need to be made dead, too; some skillful outdoors type has to do it.)