IWD:EE Art

mlnevese

This discussion was created from comments split from: Which Kits are you excited to use in Icewind Dale?.

JuliusBorisov

Schneidend said:

Zeckul said:

For one thing, the art style of BG2 spells and abilities will clash with those of IWD.

They're probably going to use IWD spell/ability graphics.

Actually, while watching the video on the official site, I've understood they use BG:EE (with the latest patch) spell/ability graphics.

Quartz

bengoshi said:

Schneidend said:

Zeckul said:

For one thing, the art style of BG2 spells and abilities will clash with those of IWD.

They're probably going to use IWD spell/ability graphics.

Actually, while watching the video on the official site, I've understood they use BG:EE (with the latest patch) spell/ability graphics.

I'm not gonna sugar coat this:

That's so fucking lame.

Haphazardly mixing art styles: IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE GAME. Not rocket science.

elminster

Pokota said:

Another thing to consider is that, in-universe, IWD takes place centuries (millenia?) before BG, so some of the kits that by flavor are more recent developments will make less sense to have, while the more primal kits will make more sense.

IWD takes place in 1281DR. The Time of Troubles (which coincides with the release of 2nd edition) happens in 1358. The events of Baldur's Gate I and 2 happen in 1368 and 1369. The cat is kind of out of the bag when it comes to IWD. From a timeline standpoint it predates 2nd edition but still uses it.

bengoshi said:

Schneidend said:

Zeckul said:

For one thing, the art style of BG2 spells and abilities will clash with those of IWD.

They're probably going to use IWD spell/ability graphics.

Actually, while watching the video on the official site, I've understood they use BG:EE (with the latest patch) spell/ability graphics.

Yea I'm not really that well versed on the variations on the graphics between the games. Web looks IWDish in that trailer, I see a lot of swirly spellcasting and not some weird blue orb thing. So is there a specific example of it that you could point to?

The main reason I ask is that I'm in the process of testing every spell in the game. So if you do see anything let me know.

JuliusBorisov

First 3 images: Color spray, Fireball and SIlence:

1



2



3



Panel with spell icons:



Chromatic Orb:



Magic Missile:



Another color spray and another spell icons:



But of course I like how both flame stike and web look like:



EDIT: At first some images vere odd, I've changed them.

elminster

Thanks. When I get the chance I'll look into it.

The_New_Romance

@Bengoshi Thanks for the insight. I strongly dislike blobbing the art direction/style of all the three games together. I was miffed at taking away BG1's paperdoll graphics and non-mirroring animation, and I still am. Now this unfortunate trend continues, probably just because it's easier that way. This is not enhancing anything, it's levelling down.

Beamdog, please don't.

Quartz

@The_New_Romance CAN I AGREE WITH THIS POST A THOUSAND TIMES THANK YOU SIR

sarevok57

speaking of wayne's world, i should go and watch that movie, last time i saw it i was like 6

CamDawg

The_New_Romance said:

I was miffed at taking away BG1's paperdoll graphics and non-mirroring animation, and I still am.

The un-mirroed BG sprites and paperdolls don't support dual-wielding.

booinyoureyes

CamDawg said:

The_New_Romance said:

I was miffed at taking away BG1's paperdoll graphics and non-mirroring animation, and I still am.

The un-mirroed BG sprites and paperdolls don't support dual-wielding.

Well, if the only way to handle dual-wielding was to
1. Use BG2 paperdolls
2. Make everybody Drizzt

then I guess that was the lesser of two evils

Quartz

@booinyoureyes Legimiately lol'd. Thanks.

CamDawg said:

The_New_Romance said:

I was miffed at taking away BG1's paperdoll graphics and non-mirroring animation, and I still am.

The un-mirroed BG sprites and paperdolls don't support dual-wielding.

Screw dual-wielding. BG1 wasn't balanced with dual-wielding in mind anyway. If the choice truly was dual-wielding or consistent art-style, I'd take the latter any day.

But that ship has sailed. IWD casting icons or bust. Yes I realize BGII spells are being added into IWD. Get an artist to IWDize their icons, it's not rocket science.

The_New_Romance

@CamDawg Thanks for you reply. I know that was the reason, and I understand why you did it. I guess many fans agree with that decision, but I just don't. I really like BG1's art style and would gladly have yielded dual wielding for its preservation.

I'm not really angry, I just felt I couldn't keep silent now that history seems to repeat itself in a way. Just for the record, I preordered, and I'm happy you do what you're doing, it's just that I have expectations. I mean, this is the Infinity Engine were talking about, not Call of Manshoot part whatever

CamDawg

Oh, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you--I prefer the BG sprites, too.

This is one of the worst consequences of the missing art. If we at least had the original models, it would be a somewhat reasonable proposition to add dual-wielding to the BG/IWD sprites.

Schneidend

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

Quartz

Schneidend said:

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

Well, except that fire ball looks like shit. But that's been every EE game, for some reason. But yes, let us be glad that at least the spell graphics have been done right.

The icons actually do mean that much to us. …Erm, sorry?

elminster

Schneidend said:

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

Some of the IWD original icons haven't aged well. For instance this is the colour spray icon in IWD 1 (HoW)



and this is it in BG2/EE

Dazzu

elminster said:

Schneidend said:

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

Some of the IWD original icons haven't aged well. For instance this is the colour spray icon in IWD 1 (HoW)



and this is it in BG2/EE

What necessarily makes the second one better? The way the sharper red on the first pops out to me makes it easier to see.

booinyoureyes

Hey guys, could we maybe take the discussion about art to a different thread? I am really enjoying it (kinda in the middle of the issue) but it has little to do with kits.

Don't mean to be a Topic Nazi or anything, but the two topics seem to be getting in eachothers way. Maybe one of our beloved mods can help? @Metalloman‌ @mlnevese‌ @bengoshi‌

elminster

Dazzu said:

elminster said:

Schneidend said:

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

Some of the IWD original icons haven't aged well. For instance this is the colour spray icon in IWD 1 (HoW)



and this is it in BG2/EE

What necessarily makes the second one better? The way the sharper red on the first pops out to me makes it easier to see.

The BG2 one is certainly finer and harder to see but the first one is just way too blurry for my tastes (which is the case for a lot of IWD's spell icons). Though I do prefer IWD's variations on colouring (especially burning hands and shocking grasp). Its a matter of personal preferences I suppose.

In any event in the interest of discussion I've gone ahead and posted some images from BG2EE and IWD (original) to show the difference between the two games icon wise. The original IWD treated Blindness and Protection from Petrification as 2nd level spells. I've pasted them into the image (just in case anyone is wondering why the background is out of place).

IWD (original)

Mage book (level 1)



Cleric book (level 1)





BG2EE

Mage Book (level 1)




Cleric Book (level 1)

Calmar

Schneidend said:

I'm not really seeing the problem. The icons are BG2, but the spell graphics, you know, the thing that actually MATTERS when you use the spell in-game, use the much improved IWD artwork. The icons can't possibly mean that much to you people.

The icons are iconic.

I like the spellbooks in IWD more than those in BG (I know this is just a subjective opinion) and I'd definitely want them all to be of the same style in IWD:EE.
I guess it can't be too difficult for someone with some photoshop skill to icewinddalerize the icons from BG for IWD:EE, is it?

The_New_Romance

I definitely like the style of the original IWD spellbook better. It looks more fantasy-ey, if you know what I mean.

Kamigoroshi

I agree that the original style is more distinctive. Of course, it wouldn't be difficult at all to simply use BG:EE's icons and modify the images with strokes/borders. That way, we would get more detailed graphics while still retaining the original IWD feeling.

But more importantly: female dwarves *must* retain their majestic beards in IWD:EE! An IWD without hairy dwarven wenches is no IWD at all.

TheRaven476

I HATED IWD icons....... not just the spell book but the item icons as well. When I was looking through IWD weapons in preparations I saw those icons and thought "ugggg I forgot how terrible they looked". The just felt cheap.

That is one of the things I'm happiest about with IWDEE is the new icons (And being able to use BG1 portraits).

Mornmagor

CamDawg said:

Oh, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you--I prefer the BG sprites, too.

This is one of the worst consequences of the missing art. If we at least had the original models, it would be a somewhat reasonable proposition to add dual-wielding to the BG/IWD sprites.

Yeah i still can't understand how the only thing missing from BG and IWD is the source art.

They kept the original code but forgot about the original art?

Anyway, it's done, but when i think of what the enhanced editions could have been if the art was there... just boggles the mind, you know.

And for someone like me, that can't stand the BG2 style sprites, ugh.

Kamigoroshi

The problem with the original IWD icons is that their strokes were too thick, which makes them appear blurry and undetailed. This however is easily fixed by using a thinner line.

Personally, I'm very fond of their colour differences though (i.e. cold spells having a light blue colour, or fire spells possessing a distinctive red shade to them). In contrast the BG:EE icons are rather monochrome in this regard.

Fardragon

BG1/2 spell icons are coloured by function, red for attack, blue for defence, and white for utility. Personally, I don't find that particularly useful, and prefer the more colourful, and hand drawn appearance, of the IWD icons. I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to recolour the BG2EE icons to match the IWD style, but getting the hand drawn look in higher resolution would mean redrawing them all from scratch.

Calmar

To me, the icons in BG I&II appear rather bland and boring. In IWD, they are colourful and catch one's eye.

TheRaven476

Really?

http://www.mikesrpgcenter.com/icewind/weapons/greatswords.html

Vs

http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weapons/twohandedswords.html

So much more colorful and eye-catching with the BG2 weapon icons.

It is kind of nice that the Spells in IWD had colors for the type of damage. But the detail on the BG spells was so much crisper. They looked less like they were drawn with thick crayons.......

Paladin

I actually prefer the BG/EE icons over the IWD icons. The BG/EE icons look much cleaner and are easier for me to see. The IWD icons look a bit jumbled and messy.

It would be neat if Beamdog could include a toggle in the graphics options for either Enhanced Icons or Classic Icons.

jackjack

Fardragon said:

I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to recolour the BG2EE icons to match the IWD style, but getting the hand drawn look in higher resolution would mean redrawing them all from scratch.

I don't see why they couldn't redraw them. Yeah, it requires a lot of work, but it's not like we're talking about thousands of spells. This falls under the category of "Enhancements", IMO.