Lich Fight Mechanics
TheRaven476
Member Posts: 44
So I killed this lich Deirex on the weekend quite easily right off the bat. I wasn’t really using any concrete strategies since it’s been a long time since I’d fought a lich but after I was reading through some lich posts some of the intricacies about my fight didn’t make much sense. Basically I buffed up going into it (No scrolls, just all the standard save buffs and whatnot), went in and started cycling through dispels spells since I forgot specifics and it was late so I just wanted to get the fight over with. I just had my 3 casters spam remove magic, breach, lower resistance. The 2 lower resistances stuck and then I was able to pelt him with magic missiles while the elemental damage from Minsc’s 2H weapons would tick off damage rapidly just a few points at a time……. Aerie was casting mass heal when dragon’s breaths would go off and the fight was over without much issue.
Question #1. Does Breach strip off spell shield even though the lich is immune to spells below level 5? Theoretically the remove magic and breach would be negated and the lower magic resistance would be absorbed by spell shield but my first lower magic resistance stuck….. if that’s the order of activation why is it not referenced more in lich guides!
Question #2. Why was I able to hit him with magic missiles? Is it just the way the game is coded? Instead of a proper immunity did they just code liches with 100% resistance to spells level 5 and bellow so when I hit with lower resistance spells it affected that? Note that some magic missile bullets were still resisted.
Question #3. I didn’t focus on this much but Keldorn’s dispel magic didn’t seem like it was doing anything. I thought it would cast as level 28 since it’s twice Keldorn’s level and strip Protection from Magic Weapons away but it never successfully did that, my character’s weapons still weren’t doing damage (Except minsc’s elemental damage from his 2 1H axes). I only cast it later into the fight because I didn’t want to strip my own buffs away but it didn’t seem to work. Is there some other protection that I’m missing? ****EDIT*****: Actually I think I figured this one out. Since Protection from Magic Weapons is combat protection I remember it not being effected by dispell magic since it removed spell protection. I read breach is the only thing that can remove those combat protections but since liches are immune to breach there is no way to remove PFMW before it tiems out.... .am I right there?
Question #4. Everyone kept touting sunray as some epic banisher of liches right off the bat but it never did anything for me. What am I missing there? Do liches have “Proper Magic Resistance” in addition to level 5 and below immunity?
Thanks for helping me try to work out the intricacies of these mechanics……….
Question #1. Does Breach strip off spell shield even though the lich is immune to spells below level 5? Theoretically the remove magic and breach would be negated and the lower magic resistance would be absorbed by spell shield but my first lower magic resistance stuck….. if that’s the order of activation why is it not referenced more in lich guides!
Question #2. Why was I able to hit him with magic missiles? Is it just the way the game is coded? Instead of a proper immunity did they just code liches with 100% resistance to spells level 5 and bellow so when I hit with lower resistance spells it affected that? Note that some magic missile bullets were still resisted.
Question #3. I didn’t focus on this much but Keldorn’s dispel magic didn’t seem like it was doing anything. I thought it would cast as level 28 since it’s twice Keldorn’s level and strip Protection from Magic Weapons away but it never successfully did that, my character’s weapons still weren’t doing damage (Except minsc’s elemental damage from his 2 1H axes). I only cast it later into the fight because I didn’t want to strip my own buffs away but it didn’t seem to work. Is there some other protection that I’m missing? ****EDIT*****: Actually I think I figured this one out. Since Protection from Magic Weapons is combat protection I remember it not being effected by dispell magic since it removed spell protection. I read breach is the only thing that can remove those combat protections but since liches are immune to breach there is no way to remove PFMW before it tiems out.... .am I right there?
Question #4. Everyone kept touting sunray as some epic banisher of liches right off the bat but it never did anything for me. What am I missing there? Do liches have “Proper Magic Resistance” in addition to level 5 and below immunity?
Thanks for helping me try to work out the intricacies of these mechanics……….
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Comments
As for Dispel, iirc, it drops combat protections but not spell protections, to enable the bizzare chess game of spell protections.
PFMW would actually prevent ALL damage from a magic weapon, but Stoneskin doesnt. But both should be affected by Dispell.
Spell counters iirc bypass most protections from spells. Breach is blocked by spell protection iirc, depending on the spell. See above...
Are you confusing Flame Strike with Sunray maybe? Flame Strike is good for mummies (sorry @Anduin some mummies are jerks!), not as ideal for Lich killing I would wager.
If you don't treat them right, they will stop cleaning your undies and cooking your tea!
At this point fleeing to another place of refuge, possibly to make another mummy, maybe your only option.
I feel flame striking them seems overly heavy handed though @DreadKhan .
Liches should always be immune to lvl 5 spells or lower, no matter what. If you hit the lich via regular lvl 1 magic missile it may be a bug.
Remove magic will remove all combat protections (stoneskin, pro from magic weapons, pro from elements) and also illusions but will not remove spell protections such as a spell turning or the mighty spell trap. Note that lvl 28 remove magic (fired from lvl 14 Sir Keldorn) might not be enough for a lich, most liches are lvl 25+ it may work but at %60 chance or lower. If the lich is lvl 30 or higher tha chances are abysmal.
"If you can dodge a wrench..."
Therefore, it's easy to summon dog, dog dies, then summon elemental army against it.
1. Liches are immune to L1-L5 spells, including breach, so you actually cannot remove their combat protections. That being said, on non-liches, breach ignores spell protections (except Spell Shield).
Magic Missile (a buggy spell) is Level 1 so it shouldn't work, but sometime does.
2. Liches are immune to L1-L5 spells, so you cannot use dispel/remove magic on them. Exception: Inquisitors dispel magic is a L0 spell (coding? I don't get it), so it works (based on some percentage). It should remove everything, spell and combat protections.
As you can see, this creates a cheesy problem. Mainly, that anything immune to 5th level spells (Liches), cannot have their combat protections removed because breach is the highest level spell that removes combat protections.
3. Sunray is alright, make sure you are standing next to the lich else it won't work (range is pretty short). Also, if the undead make the save (sometimes they do), they will only take some minor damage.
4. As others have suggested, when you do only elemental damage to an enemy, that means they are protected by stoneskin, which absorbs the initial weapon damage but not the extra elemental damage. If they had PfMW then you would not be able to hit them at all and recieve the "I hit to no effect" message.
5. I've found the best way to kill liches, is to just ignore all the bullshit and blast them directly with area of effect spells (so as to not target them directly, thereby by-passing spell trap, etc.) which are level 6 or higher. Delayed Fireball Blast/Horrid Wilting stand out as winners. Chain Contingency x3 Horrid Wilting on Sight = dead lich (haha just kidding, too metagamey for me). If you aren't high enough level, you just have to wait the four rounds for PfMW to wear off (and hope they don't case it again).
This is accurate to my knowledge, but perhaps some of what I've said isn't accurate and someone wiser can correct me.