Monks being gay is like a rule of their faith or something. Facing the possibility of either having no partner whatsoever for the rest of their lives, or becoming gay (like all the other monks they are living with) monks don't have much options. I bet there is a huge majority of gay monks, more or less the inverse of the situation in the outside world.
Hmm, I think it's a big discrimination against lesbian women that they implement a male bisexuel companion but not a female. Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
Hmm, I think it's a big discrimination against lesbian women that they implement a male bisexuel companion but not a female. Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
So this is official? They include gay male option, but didn't bother for lesbian romance? And they pretend that they care for gender equality, as they included more options for women. Except lesbians. Apparently we're not women, and obviously we're second class players.
Hmm, I think it's a big discrimination against lesbian women that they implement a male bisexuel companion but not a female. Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
So this is official? They include gay male option, but didn't bother for lesbian romance? And they pretend that they care for gender equality, as they included more options for women. Except lesbians. Apparently we're not women, and obviously we're second class players.
It's a shame @ami, but these guys have a lot of work to do! and I seriously wouldn't accuse them of discrimination or laziness, because there is simply no reason to. All we can do for now is make polite requests for the future!
Hmm, I think it's a big discrimination against lesbian women that they implement a male bisexuel companion but not a female. Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
So this is official? They include gay male option, but didn't bother for lesbian romance? And they pretend that they care for gender equality, as they included more options for women. Except lesbians. Apparently we're not women, and obviously we're second class players.
It's a shame @ami, but these guys have a lot of work to do! and I seriously wouldn't accuse them of discrimination or laziness, because there is simply no reason to. All we can do for now is make polite requests for the future!
They had time for straight romances. They even had time for gay male romance. That gay male romance contains probably only some small changes to straight one (as the character is bi), and they didn't even bother to do just that for lesbian players. All that was needed is some small changes in the dialogue. It speaks all about their priorities and that they consider women like me as second class players.
@LadyRhian, i'm not refering to FR, i'm refering to real life in reason of the previous comment of @cyberhawk. A bit late to answer but i had just forget this thread for a while and with the forum bug i don't get anymore advice when people call my name here.
Banter is part of the game. I don't see how romantic tone makes it any different. Obviously the banter should be more aware of the situation player is in, but well, you can't have everything.
Hmm, I think it's a big discrimination against lesbian women that they implement a male bisexuel companion but not a female. Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
So this is official? They include gay male option, but didn't bother for lesbian romance? And they pretend that they care for gender equality, as they included more options for women. Except lesbians. Apparently we're not women, and obviously we're second class players.
There is one new female character that we know of so far. It's rather absurd to claim that is discrimination that the one female character we know about isn't bisexual/lesbian. There is no possible way that Beamdog could represent every single possible sexuality or gender identity with three characters. In fact, they've even mentioned interest in adding a bisexual/lesbian character in the future.
I don't believe Beamdog is even trying to make a statement about gender/sexuality equality. They just made a character that happens to be bisexual. And I'd rather them take the time to make romances different and interesting between each gender rather than just slapping on a pronoun change to turn Neera into a bisexual for no reason other than to be artificially inclusive.
Your argument is basically claiming that chosing to make a character heterosexual is the same as calling lesbians second class citizens. They aren't, and you're really just making a big deal out of nothing.
And while this shouldn't matter, I am gay. Yes, I've been discriminated against, and yes, I've played games where my sexuality wasn't included (and yes, even games where there was a lesbian but not a gay option). So don't try and pull anything saying my opinion doesn't count since I've never been treated poorly for my sexuality. I have, but I learned how to move on, and look at actual societal issues, not being angry at a sample size of three characters not representing every sexuality in the world.
@Mechalibur Saying that they are not obligated to represent every sexuality in the world is really a strawman argument, since they represented all sexualities, including yours, except one. And it's not exactly about representation per se, but about giving players the option. When only one segment of players is excluded from having fun, it should rise questions about the motivations behind that move.
Personally I suspect that only lesbian players were left alone because of the way of thinking presented in this thread before:
Seriously? Did you ever consider that maybe some ACTUAL lesbians love this game and would like the possibility of having a romance just like everyone else? Like me and a few others on this very board who will once again be left out completely?
It's very hurtful when people automatically dismiss lesbian or bisexual characters as only "outlets for sex-starved, lesbian-loving men". I hear it all the time. It may not have been your intention, but it gives the strong impression that we are not considered actual gamers. Much like how some people subconsciously dismiss female gamers when they say why would you choose female except to stare at your character's butt?
Well, let me tell you something. I guarantee you that the people who most wanted a same-sex female option are NOT straight men. Straight men already have an option, as they have in every single game where you can choose your gender and have a relationship with someone. But no one seriously suggests that THEIR option shouldn't exist.
In many recent RPG games, you'll find the same pattern.
For example in Mass Effect 3 they added two gay male romances and one lesbian one (although there was romance with Liara before, but devs tried to do everything to degay it and just leave "hot chick on chick" aspect, Casey Hudson even specifically said that there is nothing lesbian in that romance and never took it back - so that's your case when there was "lesbian" but not gay option - and BTW, I participated really passionately in Bioware threads about including gay male romances, and it's obvious that people's "rant" made it happen in the end, and it really hurts me that gay man uses such rhetoric to put down those who are calling devs out of their choice of excluding lesbian romance). There are two characters that are for same sex only, and it shows the difference the best. Gay male one have a lot more development and actual content, lesbian one is basically just "hawt" sex scene and not much dialogue or scenes besides of it.
In Fallout New Vegas there are no actual romances, but there are four perks that allow gay and straight conversation options. And again, devs gave lesbian options much, much less attention that gay male one. Not only there is less occasions to use that perk, but also usually it doesn't change anything in the dialogue, unlike gay perk.
And now it got one step further. There is none lesbian option at all, while there is gay male one (before it happened too in Fable for example, but it was justified by a fact that there was no female character, while now we have to believe that either no lesbians exist in Forgotten Realms, or our character is straight woman whether we like it or not). Apparently they didn't think anyone would complain, it's not that lesbians actually exist and play games, lesbians live only in adult movies and minds of sex-starved men.
Personally I am offended that they did not include midget romance as an option to cater to my dwarphilia. They do not at all cater to this, and that is very unreasonable!
As I represent 0.0002% of their potential market demographic I believe it only reasonable that they dedicate their time and resources to making a romance keyed to my (biblical) love of small persons.
Likewise I am insulted at the lack of inclusion of dwarf and gnome female NPCs, and the fact that I, as a polyamorist, will be unable to craft myself a harem of willing nubile halflings, dwarves and gnomes of both genders. Also and that there is no romance option with Nessie, the cow.
Clearly these options have not been included as an intentional and vulgar insult towards my sexual orientation and they should be included accordingly.
Now my mandatory sarcastic response has been aired, I shall say no, stop being daft, game developers do not have a moral responsibility to cover all gender preferences, nor is it discrimination if they fail to do so. Game developers are welcome to include exclusively homosexual or heterosexual options at their own volition if they so please, and capitalism will determine the outcome of this choice accordingly.
As it is, I'd say that the fact that females in general now have *choices* outside of Anomen is a major step forward already, as is the fact that romances never existed for anyone anywhere in BG1 previously short of modding, and the fact that the developers have already suggested the introduction of a fourth and final romantic option is already in their minds.
Now, you're welcome to vote with your wallet if the absence (which has, again, been described as a *temporary* absence) of a fledgeling lesbian romance offends you deeply, you're equally welcome to develop your own game as well, but the fact is that you're complaining of a lack of romance in a game which didn't have romance in in the first place.
This is not unlike complaining that "Pony" is not a playable race in game, or that the Blackguard kit and Dorn the NPC are insulting to you, as you never play evil NPCs and should have had some good aligned Kit/NPC as well, or complaining that steakhouses do not stockpile soya products for vegetarians.
I don't care about the gay/lesbian/necrophilic/zoophilic/pedophile etc. romances... but where is the "funny black guy"? Since the 80's there is always a "funny black guy" in the movies. Nowdays there are only "funny gay guys" or funny lovable characters played by gay actors... I reeealy don't know how was I able to play this game before.
I do hope they make Neera available for both genders...
They won't. IIRC, one of the three new characters is bi, but they later said it's not her.
That's why i mentioned it. Might be possible to 'unlock' that later on.
I think you mean 'add', not 'unlock'. If they were to make Neera bi then it would be a post release addition since, by the sounds of it, there is nothing to unlock.
Personally I'm a bit sceptical about that. If it's not an original part of her character then it's arguably not appropriate to change that later in post and could end up being detrimental to her character. Best leave that sort of thing to mods or fan fiction, I say.
@callimachus Yes, very disappointing. The evil huge muscular half orc is definitely not my type of a man, even if I put aside the fact that he will simply break from my party when my reputation will be high enough...
I am quite happy that he is the one. Filthy half-orc bastard... I never let a partymember die before. Now I can kill one without remorse. I guess BGEE is better than expected.
@ankheg Let me see if I get you correctly - you are glad that the half orc is bisexual because that allows you to kill him without remorse? I cannot express how revolting I find your mindset.
Personally, I'm all for seeing how Dorn plays out. Hell, never mind the bisexuality. How often do we get an genuinely evil male NPC as a romanceable character in RPGs, outside of modding? Lots of interesting potential there.
Comments
Hope they will fix this problem with a patch or a free of charge DLC.
It speaks all about their priorities and that they consider women like me as second class players.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4334/female-female-romance/p1
It's killing me when I buff before a difficult battle, plan my strategy, race towards the enemy and a NPC initates dialogue about what X is wearing.
I don't believe Beamdog is even trying to make a statement about gender/sexuality equality. They just made a character that happens to be bisexual. And I'd rather them take the time to make romances different and interesting between each gender rather than just slapping on a pronoun change to turn Neera into a bisexual for no reason other than to be artificially inclusive.
Your argument is basically claiming that chosing to make a character heterosexual is the same as calling lesbians second class citizens. They aren't, and you're really just making a big deal out of nothing.
And while this shouldn't matter, I am gay. Yes, I've been discriminated against, and yes, I've played games where my sexuality wasn't included (and yes, even games where there was a lesbian but not a gay option). So don't try and pull anything saying my opinion doesn't count since I've never been treated poorly for my sexuality. I have, but I learned how to move on, and look at actual societal issues, not being angry at a sample size of three characters not representing every sexuality in the world.
Saying that they are not obligated to represent every sexuality in the world is really a strawman argument, since they represented all sexualities, including yours, except one. And it's not exactly about representation per se, but about giving players the option. When only one segment of players is excluded from having fun, it should rise questions about the motivations behind that move.
Personally I suspect that only lesbian players were left alone because of the way of thinking presented in this thread before: @Jalily already gave excellent response to it, so I'll just cite her: In many recent RPG games, you'll find the same pattern.
For example in Mass Effect 3 they added two gay male romances and one lesbian one (although there was romance with Liara before, but devs tried to do everything to degay it and just leave "hot chick on chick" aspect, Casey Hudson even specifically said that there is nothing lesbian in that romance and never took it back - so that's your case when there was "lesbian" but not gay option - and BTW, I participated really passionately in Bioware threads about including gay male romances, and it's obvious that people's "rant" made it happen in the end, and it really hurts me that gay man uses such rhetoric to put down those who are calling devs out of their choice of excluding lesbian romance).
There are two characters that are for same sex only, and it shows the difference the best. Gay male one have a lot more development and actual content, lesbian one is basically just "hawt" sex scene and not much dialogue or scenes besides of it.
In Fallout New Vegas there are no actual romances, but there are four perks that allow gay and straight conversation options. And again, devs gave lesbian options much, much less attention that gay male one. Not only there is less occasions to use that perk, but also usually it doesn't change anything in the dialogue, unlike gay perk.
And now it got one step further. There is none lesbian option at all, while there is gay male one (before it happened too in Fable for example, but it was justified by a fact that there was no female character, while now we have to believe that either no lesbians exist in Forgotten Realms, or our character is straight woman whether we like it or not). Apparently they didn't think anyone would complain, it's not that lesbians actually exist and play games, lesbians live only in adult movies and minds of sex-starved men.
As I represent 0.0002% of their potential market demographic I believe it only reasonable that they dedicate their time and resources to making a romance keyed to my (biblical) love of small persons.
Likewise I am insulted at the lack of inclusion of dwarf and gnome female NPCs, and the fact that I, as a polyamorist, will be unable to craft myself a harem of willing nubile halflings, dwarves and gnomes of both genders. Also and that there is no romance option with Nessie, the cow.
Clearly these options have not been included as an intentional and vulgar insult towards my sexual orientation and they should be included accordingly.
Now my mandatory sarcastic response has been aired, I shall say no, stop being daft, game developers do not have a moral responsibility to cover all gender preferences, nor is it discrimination if they fail to do so. Game developers are welcome to include exclusively homosexual or heterosexual options at their own volition if they so please, and capitalism will determine the outcome of this choice accordingly.
As it is, I'd say that the fact that females in general now have *choices* outside of Anomen is a major step forward already, as is the fact that romances never existed for anyone anywhere in BG1 previously short of modding, and the fact that the developers have already suggested the introduction of a fourth and final romantic option is already in their minds.
Now, you're welcome to vote with your wallet if the absence (which has, again, been described as a *temporary* absence) of a fledgeling lesbian romance offends you deeply, you're equally welcome to develop your own game as well, but the fact is that you're complaining of a lack of romance in a game which didn't have romance in in the first place.
This is not unlike complaining that "Pony" is not a playable race in game, or that the Blackguard kit and Dorn the NPC are insulting to you, as you never play evil NPCs and should have had some good aligned Kit/NPC as well, or complaining that steakhouses do not stockpile soya products for vegetarians.
Romance only spice things up! it's just like a buffet! Take it or leave it! (=
Personal, I would like to see more of it!
IIRC, one of the three new characters is bi, but they later said it's not her.
Personally I'm a bit sceptical about that. If it's not an original part of her character then it's arguably not appropriate to change that later in post and could end up being detrimental to her character. Best leave that sort of thing to mods or fan fiction, I say.
apparently it's Dorn (the evil half orc).
Disappointing, IMO.
Yes, very disappointing. The evil huge muscular half orc is definitely not my type of a man, even if I put aside the fact that he will simply break from my party when my reputation will be high enough...
Yeah, I agree with every word.
Let me see if I get you correctly - you are glad that the half orc is bisexual because that allows you to kill him without remorse? I cannot express how revolting I find your mindset.