The Planscape setting was released by WotC as a 2nd edition setting. Several of the settings have quite distinct rules, but PST I think deviates from the setting rules as well I think. It borrows a lot from JRPGs, especially FF7. There is no reference to DnD on the front of the box, but I think there was a small DnD logo on the back. (I bet the game would have sold many times as many copies had the cover featured a certain companion, rather than the protagonist).
The new Torment game is not Planescape, or DnD. It's connection is thematic and authorial. Its rules and setting are original.
I dont understand why people keep saying 3e is outdated. 5e is far more outdated in terms of mechanics in the fact that it goes BACKWARDS rather than forwards because Wotc realized what a bad idea 4e was.
Imo Pathfinder is still the perfect system and it is basically a fix for 3.5, any game that takes dnd rules should use pathfinder seeing as 4e doesnt fit roleplaying games (especially not any bg series seeing as forgotten realms got completely crapped on in 4e). And 2e is not going to grab any new players. I still love bg1-2 and iwd for the fact that they're 2e but i dont think we need any more games in 2e.
Story and gameplay are what matter, not the mechanics of the system. Whether 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Edition a good game can be made from it. As for 4E Realms, a lot of fans certainly got upset by the time jump and various changes, but it was still a huge world with interesting places to visit and characters to meet. If a game company can't craft an awesome game from the Realms setting, regardless of timeline, then said company doesn't have much skill.
I dont understand why people keep saying 3e is outdated. 5e is far more outdated in terms of mechanics in the fact that it goes BACKWARDS rather than forwards because Wotc realized what a bad idea 4e was.
Imo Pathfinder is still the perfect system and it is basically a fix for 3.5, any game that takes dnd rules should use pathfinder seeing as 4e doesnt fit roleplaying games (especially not any bg series seeing as forgotten realms got completely crapped on in 4e). And 2e is not going to grab any new players. I still love bg1-2 and iwd for the fact that they're 2e but i dont think we need any more games in 2e.
4E fits roleplaying games just fine. I've been running a campaign infinitely more open-ended than any IE game for over three years now. There's nothing in 4E, whatsoever, that hinders roleplay, in the same way that there's really nothing in 3E or 2E that magically enhances roleplay. All of that, investing emotion and story and charaterization, are purely in the hands of players and DM, regardless of edition. Or, in the case of a CRPG, purely in the hands of its writers and to a lesser extent its players.
I would say that the lack of class balance in 1st and 2nd edition encourages role play. Since not everyone can fight their way out of everything, you need to look for other solutions.
Likewise, the skill system in 3rd edition can encourage role play.
I don't really know much about 4th edition, I only played it once, and found myself completely lost. (I didn't have any trouble transitioning from 2nd to 3rd edition, but maybe I'm just getting old).
Not everybody can fight their way out of everything in 4E, either, especially since it has traps and other non-combat hazards, problems, powers, and skills like other editions.
The skill systems in 3E and 4E are largely the same, similar DCs and arbitration and all that, with the main difference being that 3E has points/rank and 4E simplifies it to being trained or not trained. So, I hate to say it, but you probably ARE just gettin' a bit long in the tooth, @Fardragon. Weird, since you being a dragon and all you should be getting more wily. Do dragons have such a thing as senility?
Anyway, @Riolathel agree on one thing, that 5E isn't far from 2E. That's why I'm irked that 4E never got a proper game, because any proper 5E games will be more of the same, even if they're good. I love BG and IWD just fine, but I'd rather see more 3E games or a Pathfinder game than another 2E game.
Personally, I think they should make a new game in 5th edition, 5th edition is looking rather nice to me as an alternative to 2nd edition and pathfinder. Just thought I'd say that since it is impossible for them to make a game in 2nd Edition due to WotC policies.
I'd certainly play a 5E D&D game, I'd just prefer 3E, 4E, or Pathfinder. I'd pretty much play anything that more or less accurately replicates a d20 ruleset, though, even the ones I have numerous issues with, like 2E and 3E. Everything from Baldur's Gate to Temple of Elemental Evil to Icewind Dale 2 has my love.
Really hoping Obsidian puts out something great for Pathfinder in the future, and that Overhaul rises to the challenge and makes some kind of original D&D IP to compete with Obsidian's Pathfinder game. That would be a wonderful time to be alive. As much as I like Borderlands, Skyrim, Destiny, The Old Republic, or Fallout: New Vegas, it's just not the same without that little d20, and I've been waiting a long time for a new d20 game.
The BG series is exhausted. I can't understand why people are so stuck on it. I'm also meh about Adventure Y. What I rather have is a new original title instead, infinity engine or not. I'm not looking to buy a name, I'm looking for a good game. I don't think they are capable though.
The amount of enhancing IWD2 or P:T need is too small to warrant doing, especially since they don't really enhance stuff that need enhancing (e.g. AI, GUI)?
i think it can't be exhausted since there's there's apparently a following and a new game hasn't been released in many years - a typical reboot scenario. the only question is how well a more niche game in an old engine is going to work out. imagine how well a wholly modern game like dragon age would sell, pretty damn well i think.
In the Familiar Magazine there's an interesting quote by Trent Oster on this subject:
"I'll leave that open to the imagination. I have more projects in my head than neurons. I'm a huge D&D fan, with at least a few ideas for almost every setting. I was a big Dragonlance series fan, loved Dark Sun as a setting and played a ton of Forgotten Realms settings."
As the Magazine then adds, "that's enough hints at possible futures to leave us all salivating."
I want a brand-new, from scratch story. Preferably something where you skip the boring first 3-4 levels and make it maybe to 12, then a second game going to 20ish. But still DnD.
BG has gone as far as it can—I've both played the story to the point it isn't that engaging, and going beyond Throne of Bhaal doesn't make sense. I'd be happy to see a new story in Athlatka, taking advantage of many of the same maps to speed development, but with a completely different story line. Maybe a decade of ToB.
Even better, for me, would to expore the areas east of the Sword Coast, with as different a feel from BG and IWD as IWD was from BG.
I have been reading some of the forums over the last year or so and thought I should join... Been a DM and Player of AD&D/D&D of over 35+ years. I have loved the BG Games since day one! I also love the Infinity Engine and the Hacking... LoL
I think BeamDog has done a commendable job with everything they undertook to get the EE games out the door. Yes the Black Pits offered a sampling of a mod for BG1 (Wanting more like a few other people) and I think that Siege of Dragonspear will do fine as well to fill in the gap between BG1 and BG2. I think many people saw the Infinity Games Modders taking Baldur's Gate by the horns, mod the hell out of it and Beamdog had seen that effect and run with it to get the EE out the door at least for newer machines. I will be happy when Siege comes out at the end of March/April. Though I purchased my hard copy of BG1EE via the UK...
Now for my Opinions on a "Possible" Baldurs Gate 3.... Which I do enthusiastically support if they do it!
Lets ask BeamDog to either call it BG3 or not. The Further Tales of the Sword Coast is a nice journal entry if you ask me and you haven't asked me so we should let them call it whatever comes to mind or might sell the Forgotten Realms/Sword Coast name if it is indeed in the Forgotten Realms.
I am sure if they use the 2e (heavily modified) rules) for Game Edition 3, they can still make an outstanding dungeon crawl or wilderness adventure like the ones we have now. I would like to say like a few of you, I also have heard the rumors of the Waterdeep or Luskan alternatives for adventures if they do a BG3 Sequel. I will offer a few suggestions to that one particular place that could expand everything and get all of us roused up and look for the next adventure in 2017 or 2018. Even that expansion could provide further patches to make our lovely games a bloated game that requires its own standalone computer with a Big World Mod... LoL
** Waterdeep** If indeed this is the next step or the last step in the BG era/trilogy! They could end the Infinity Engine game with this if that is the ultimate goal for the 2e Rules Set in the PC Games. Modders would still be making mods for a little while longer though...
While if they do Game Z and that is the end game then Waterdeep makes a good fit. However a possible up to 8 character expansion would be nice to finish it off if its possible... LoL
** Waterdeep is wonderful. Its just like Baldurs Gate. The city is huge and you have a lot of space to work with including; Daggerford to the south, a route to Neverwinter to the Northeast, The Mines of Illfarn, the city sewers, the Waterdeep Citadel, the docks and city wards, the city gates, the cemetery, and yes the final drinking sport at the Yawning Portal to a lift in the well to the prized destination in Waterdeep - Undermountain!!! Plenty of material to look at and utilize for a big game too.
***Undermountain*** ** Undermountain if you own the rules set ie 2E boxed edition would be another place to adventure. Halaster Blackcloak and his ilk makes a nice dungeon prison errr I mean adventuring delving place. That being said that could encompass an entire game with many side-quests as the mountain has over 12+ levels (areas) in it to explore. And all those magical areas and those traps... Awesome!!!
** In the bowls of Undermountain you also have the port city of Skullport, adventures in its own right and even the Stardock and Maggoths level. And even a "made-up" level in those levels can be similar to a machine level that we get a feel from like Temple of the Frog or Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. This could lead to a portal into Greyhawk or Mystara, Maybe even off to Krynn if any of those worlds saw the IE game engine go there.
You talk about IWD2:EE but none of the poll options include it; they all assume you agree that BG3 should be made in the first place, which I am opposed to.
I think that both IWD2:EE and PST:EE could work. Building a new engine for them, however, is probably not a good idea. People cling to what they know, and the bigger the changes, the less it feels like a remaster of their beloved old classics.
So, I'd vote for IWD2:EE and PST:EE each in an only slightly updated version of their original engine. If there's new content to be made in the form of BG3 or whatever, it could be on a new or heavily modified engine, sure. But I'd much prefer a new IP instead of iteration on a story that really is pretty much done.
The poll isn't about iwd2 because it's such a straightforward thing - sure they can make it, it's going work just like the original and and when they do it everybody's going to be either happy or indifferent about it. So i omitted it for simplicity. There's an option for those who don't want BG3, i think you missed it.
From a practicality point of view I'm sure a new game would have to have the latest rule-set anyway. Im not actually too fussed about them porting over ps:t and I assume Bg3 in your poll could refer to a completely different ip set within the forgotten realms.
Im not familiar with 5E but I imagine a d&d ruleset will be fairly robust so I have no issue with them utilising it. Im also not as invested in 2E lore as many people on these forums, my only knowledge of them stemming from the infinity engine rpgs so the retconning doesn't bother me either.
All I want is a new rpg in the vein of the baldurs gate trilogy that can match its predecessors. With recent additions to their writing staff I'm sure they can create an epic story and I hope they continue to refine the infinity engine to preserve the same feel of combat as it's predecessors. Not too much to ask surely
i understand that this poll is a bit silly. back at the time it seemed like a really good idea to frame things like that (changing rulesets, using iwd2's 3e for new products...) but that's only because i didn't realize how undoable that is.
but i'm still convinced that if ps:t gets made something *radical* needs to happen to it's combat.
A divine level campaign across the planes would be so cool.
Regarding an EE of PST, I would be 100% for it. I've even contemplated trying to rip out all of the dialogue and turn it into a VN the interface is so bad.
Who cares about IWD II EE, better make PS:T EE - with Torment: Tides of Numenera incoming it's a more logical choice because of the influx of interest. BG3 honestly sounds unfeasible for Beamdog...for now at least.
How about a Completely New game Somewhere Else in the Forgotten Realms Like Cormyr , the Daleands Ect... We have Done BG and IWD lets travel somewhere Else in the Realms....
Any completely new game would AFAIK have to use 5th edition. I actually consider this a selling point, I'd quite like to learn how the new system works. Maybe I'll hate it, maybe it'll be cool, but I know 2nd edition pretty well, and 3rd edition just never grabbed me.
Given that this new game would need 5th, this probably means Beamdog cannot use the existing EE engine to code it. Perhaps altering it to EE5 would be really easy, perhaps not. If not, they're better off remaking whatever old games they can get their hands on that originally used second edition.
Or first edition? Temple of elemental evil? Hey, I played Ravenloft: Strahd's posession 20 years ago, and got stuck because I only found 19 of the 20 gold coins I needed to give the gypsy to unlock the next area. I would totally play that in a new engine.
As for Torment, I really want to play this, but I really don't want to relive graphics of the noughties to do it, so EE FTW.
Or first edition? Temple of elemental evil? Hey, I played Ravenloft: Strahd's posession 20 years ago, and got stuck because I only found 19 of the 20 gold coins I needed to give the gypsy to unlock the next area. I would totally play that in a new engine.
I would be down with Ravenlofts original modules I6 and I10 somehow packaged together with some filler material and perhaps something else. I think a Ravenloft the size of BG1 would be pretty cool for either 1e or 2e. A modder could do something like that but I am sure you need some good artwork for the Castles and such to add gloom. Perhaps some Van Helsing like characters the original module did not provide could be added to the ones in Gryphon Hill.
Comments
The new Torment game is not Planescape, or DnD. It's connection is thematic and authorial. Its rules and setting are original.
Imo Pathfinder is still the perfect system and it is basically a fix for 3.5, any game that takes dnd rules should use pathfinder seeing as 4e doesnt fit roleplaying games (especially not any bg series seeing as forgotten realms got completely crapped on in 4e). And 2e is not going to grab any new players. I still love bg1-2 and iwd for the fact that they're 2e but i dont think we need any more games in 2e.
Likewise, the skill system in 3rd edition can encourage role play.
I don't really know much about 4th edition, I only played it once, and found myself completely lost. (I didn't have any trouble transitioning from 2nd to 3rd edition, but maybe I'm just getting old).
The skill systems in 3E and 4E are largely the same, similar DCs and arbitration and all that, with the main difference being that 3E has points/rank and 4E simplifies it to being trained or not trained. So, I hate to say it, but you probably ARE just gettin' a bit long in the tooth, @Fardragon. Weird, since you being a dragon and all you should be getting more wily. Do dragons have such a thing as senility?
Anyway, @Riolathel agree on one thing, that 5E isn't far from 2E. That's why I'm irked that 4E never got a proper game, because any proper 5E games will be more of the same, even if they're good. I love BG and IWD just fine, but I'd rather see more 3E games or a Pathfinder game than another 2E game.
Really hoping Obsidian puts out something great for Pathfinder in the future, and that Overhaul rises to the challenge and makes some kind of original D&D IP to compete with Obsidian's Pathfinder game. That would be a wonderful time to be alive. As much as I like Borderlands, Skyrim, Destiny, The Old Republic, or Fallout: New Vegas, it's just not the same without that little d20, and I've been waiting a long time for a new d20 game.
The amount of enhancing IWD2 or P:T need is too small to warrant doing, especially since they don't really enhance stuff that need enhancing (e.g. AI, GUI)?
imagine how well a wholly modern game like dragon age would sell, pretty damn well i think.
"I'll leave that open to the imagination. I have more projects in my head than neurons. I'm a huge D&D fan, with at least a few ideas for almost every setting. I was a big Dragonlance series fan, loved Dark Sun as a setting and played a ton of Forgotten Realms settings."
As the Magazine then adds, "that's enough hints at possible futures to leave us all salivating."
BG has gone as far as it can—I've both played the story to the point it isn't that engaging, and going beyond Throne of Bhaal doesn't make sense. I'd be happy to see a new story in Athlatka, taking advantage of many of the same maps to speed development, but with a completely different story line. Maybe a decade of ToB.
Even better, for me, would to expore the areas east of the Sword Coast, with as different a feel from BG and IWD as IWD was from BG.
I have been reading some of the forums over the last year or so and thought I should join... Been a DM and Player of AD&D/D&D of over 35+ years. I have loved the BG Games since day one! I also love the Infinity Engine and the Hacking... LoL
I think BeamDog has done a commendable job with everything they undertook to get the EE games out the door. Yes the Black Pits offered a sampling of a mod for BG1 (Wanting more like a few other people) and I think that Siege of Dragonspear will do fine as well to fill in the gap between BG1 and BG2. I think many people saw the Infinity Games Modders taking Baldur's Gate by the horns, mod the hell out of it and Beamdog had seen that effect and run with it to get the EE out the door at least for newer machines. I will be happy when Siege comes out at the end of March/April. Though I purchased my hard copy of BG1EE via the UK...
Now for my Opinions on a "Possible" Baldurs Gate 3.... Which I do enthusiastically support if they do it!
Lets ask BeamDog to either call it BG3 or not. The Further Tales of the Sword Coast is a nice journal entry if you ask me and you haven't asked me so we should let them call it whatever comes to mind or might sell the Forgotten Realms/Sword Coast name if it is indeed in the Forgotten Realms.
I am sure if they use the 2e (heavily modified) rules) for Game Edition 3, they can still make an outstanding dungeon crawl or wilderness adventure like the ones we have now. I would like to say like a few of you, I also have heard the rumors of the Waterdeep or Luskan alternatives for adventures if they do a BG3 Sequel. I will offer a few suggestions to that one particular place that could expand everything and get all of us roused up and look for the next adventure in 2017 or 2018. Even that expansion could provide further patches to make our lovely games a bloated game that requires its own standalone computer with a Big World Mod... LoL
** Waterdeep**
If indeed this is the next step or the last step in the BG era/trilogy! They could end the Infinity Engine game with this if that is the ultimate goal for the 2e Rules Set in the PC Games. Modders would still be making mods for a little while longer though...
While if they do Game Z and that is the end game then Waterdeep makes a good fit. However a possible up to 8 character expansion would be nice to finish it off if its possible... LoL
** Waterdeep is wonderful. Its just like Baldurs Gate. The city is huge and you have a lot of space to work with including; Daggerford to the south, a route to Neverwinter to the Northeast, The Mines of Illfarn, the city sewers, the Waterdeep Citadel, the docks and city wards, the city gates, the cemetery, and yes the final drinking sport at the Yawning Portal to a lift in the well to the prized destination in Waterdeep - Undermountain!!! Plenty of material to look at and utilize for a big game too.
***Undermountain***
** Undermountain if you own the rules set ie 2E boxed edition would be another place to adventure. Halaster Blackcloak and his ilk makes a nice dungeon prison errr I mean adventuring delving place. That being said that could encompass an entire game with many side-quests as the mountain has over 12+ levels (areas) in it to explore. And all those magical areas and those traps... Awesome!!!
** In the bowls of Undermountain you also have the port city of Skullport, adventures in its own right and even the Stardock and Maggoths level. And even a "made-up" level in those levels can be similar to a machine level that we get a feel from like Temple of the Frog or Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. This could lead to a portal into Greyhawk or Mystara, Maybe even off to Krynn if any of those worlds saw the IE game engine go there.
Another fan of the BG series of Games...
I think that both IWD2:EE and PST:EE could work. Building a new engine for them, however, is probably not a good idea. People cling to what they know, and the bigger the changes, the less it feels like a remaster of their beloved old classics.
So, I'd vote for IWD2:EE and PST:EE each in an only slightly updated version of their original engine. If there's new content to be made in the form of BG3 or whatever, it could be on a new or heavily modified engine, sure. But I'd much prefer a new IP instead of iteration on a story that really is pretty much done.
Im not familiar with 5E but I imagine a d&d ruleset will be fairly robust so I have no issue with them utilising it. Im also not as invested in 2E lore as many people on these forums, my only knowledge of them stemming from the infinity engine rpgs so the retconning doesn't bother me either.
All I want is a new rpg in the vein of the baldurs gate trilogy that can match its predecessors. With recent additions to their writing staff I'm sure they can create an epic story and I hope they continue to refine the infinity engine to preserve the same feel of combat as it's predecessors. Not too much to ask surely
but i'm still convinced that if ps:t gets made something *radical* needs to happen to it's combat.
I really need to give that game another chance.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/110494-george-ziets-describes-how-hed-approach-baldurs-gate-iii.html
A divine level campaign across the planes would be so cool.
Regarding an EE of PST, I would be 100% for it. I've even contemplated trying to rip out all of the dialogue and turn it into a VN the interface is so bad.
BG3 honestly sounds unfeasible for Beamdog...for now at least.
Given that this new game would need 5th, this probably means Beamdog cannot use the existing EE engine to code it. Perhaps altering it to EE5 would be really easy, perhaps not. If not, they're better off remaking whatever old games they can get their hands on that originally used second edition.
Or first edition? Temple of elemental evil? Hey, I played Ravenloft: Strahd's posession 20 years ago, and got stuck because I only found 19 of the 20 gold coins I needed to give the gypsy to unlock the next area. I would totally play that in a new engine.
As for Torment, I really want to play this, but I really don't want to relive graphics of the noughties to do it, so EE FTW.
For future games though they should build up a (good) 5e engine from scratch and use it to hell
You either create ID3 or a completely new game in the DnD universum.