The Ranger/Cleric as a Primary Divine Spellcaster

alastair93

Another one of my no-reload characters died, so I've been researching a new class to try.

I was thinking of rolling a Ranger and dual-classing ASAP (level 2, I think) into a Cleric. From reading the forums, people usually advise to do this later, but I want my character to mainly be a divine spellcaster — doing melee only in emergencies. The druidic spells are awesome, and I thought it would be interesting to have a rather purist divine magic-orientated character.

The high Cleric levels will also mean that Dispel Magic will be pretty potent.

Anyone ever tried this? Is it fun, boring, overpowered, underpowered?

FinneousPJ

Interesting idea. It's kind of like a cleric+1. Only downside is no kit (and must be human), but I think this is way better than any kit. Unlock specialization and druid spells for a trivial loss of xp? Yes, please.

simples

the multiclass is op apparently, never tried it myself.
what benefit would a ranger have over a fighter if you dual-class him?
as far as i know, rangers can only cast starting at level 7 or 8.

alastair93

simples said:

the multiclass is op apparently, never tried it myself.
what benefit would a ranger have over a fighter if you dual-class him?
as far as i know, rangers can only cast starting at level 7 or 8.

I think it's usually considered overpowered because of the huge combat bonuses (APRs, THAC0 etc.) on top of everything else. But this character would essentially be a full cleric with druidic spells and a few more pips on their weapons specialisations. From dualling so early, I think the physical combat bonuses will be minimal.

There's a hardcoded glitch in the game that gives you access to all the druid spells, despite only having 1 or 2 levels in ranger. So the character will be able to cast Nature's Beauty, for instance, when he gets level 7 divine magic.

The only drawback is that I don't think I'll get the Druid HLAs like Elemental Summonings, which is a bit sad. But oh well. That would be overkill, I guess. I'm thinking of it like an enhanced Cleric with a better spellbook.

Frond

I did this through BGEE. Though I didn't make it to SoA (yet) and I dualed at 3 for the extra pip in two weapon fighting, it was still a blast to play. Druid+Cleric spells, extra 1/2 APR and quicker lvling than a multiclass made it pretty fun.

simples

oh so you can actually start casting level 7 druid spells before a druid would be able to? that sounds like a fun exploitable bug

elminster

alastair93 said:

The only drawback is that I don't think I'll get the Druid HLAs like Elemental Summonings, which is a bit sad. But oh well. That would be overkill, I guess. I'm thinking of it like an enhanced Cleric with a better spellbook.

You get the Elemental Summoning HLA. Its just Greater Elemental Summoning and the Fire/Earth Elemental Transformation that you don't get spell wise.

alastair93

elminster said:

alastair93 said:

The only drawback is that I don't think I'll get the Druid HLAs like Elemental Summonings, which is a bit sad. But oh well. That would be overkill, I guess. I'm thinking of it like an enhanced Cleric with a better spellbook.

You get the Elemental Summoning HLA. Its just Greater Elemental Summoning and the Fire/Earth Elemental Transformation that you don't get spell wise.

Wow, even better.

Lord_Tansheron

It works, but I'm not convinced it's better than a straight multiclass R/C. You aren't lagging too far behind with multiclass, really, and the higher up you go in XP the more it favors multiclass since caster level is capped and clerics get a lot of spells fairly quickly. Add to that the extra combat prowess and fighter HLAs, and I think the multiclass R/C wins. Physical damage is, after all, not only inherently better than spell damage in almost all scenarios, but it also benefits greatly from the vast array of support spells you get.

FinneousPJ

I don't think anyone's arguing it's better than the multi, but it's definitely better than a cleric.

Lord_Tansheron

Fair enough. I guess it is, given that the Cleric kits are only so-so in their bonuses. Lathander is likely the best, and the Boon spell is probably offset fairly well by having Ranger proficiencies and Druid support spells.

Haven't tried it myself, I can never bring myself to run with pure (or near-pure) Divine casters...

Pibaro

I like this.
You'll basically have a pure cleric with +1 thac0, +2 damage, + 1/2 APR, good dual wielding, and all the interesting druidic spells. Last but not least you'll have up to 8 pf bonus, and in BGEE you can have 18/xx strenght (later it will be meaningless)

No cleric kit can give you something even close to this.

JuliusBorisov

Let's just cross fingers a patch 1.4 or so won't fix an ability to learn high level druidic spells for such a char as a part of IWDEE-fication of BGEE

Eadwyn_G8keeper

You will also have the racial enemy bonus [Spiders, Dragons, etc] and a bit of Stealth which can combo very well with Sanctuary [think Dagger of Venom].

Lord_Tansheron

Is it possible to dual one of the Ranger kits? I was thinking Stalker->Cleric, though that may not be terribly efficient as a low level dual... Still, being able to backstab with a Staff of Striking may be worth something!

elminster

Yes you can dual from the ranger kits.

[Deleted User]

Lord_Tansheron said:

Is it possible to dual one of the Ranger kits? I was thinking Stalker->Cleric, though that may not be terribly efficient as a low level dual... Still, being able to backstab with a Staff of Striking may be worth something!

You can dual from the Ranger Kits, but all of them give up access to good armor and don't have much in the way of low level benefits. If I were to do a Stalker->Cleric dual class (and I've considered it in the past), I'd at least wait until level 9 for better HP and x3 backstabs.

Abi_Dalzim

It's a bummer that Archer bonuses don't really apply to slings...an Archer/Cleric with 5 points in slings could be terrifying, especially with Iron Skins and the like.

JuliusBorisov

@Abi_Dalzim‌

Actually, the archer bonuse DO apply to slings. Yes, he can't put 5 pips into this weapon (only 2) but still he gets all his kit bonuses when using a sling as it's a missile weapon.

So, an archer with a sling gets the +1 damage & hit every 3 levels, gets the Dex bonus to Thac0, gets the Str bonus to his damage. The Called shot ability applies to slings as well.

Riolathel

Basically clerics are the best class in BG series (talking completely out of my ass but i love them). They are amazing in melee combat even though they are the heals/buffs of the team. All of their physical cons are completely offset by spells.

Plus if you start from 18 str and get all the ability boosts from bg and bg2 Draw upon holy might caps out your str at 25 and you can prepare it several times.

Then you take into the account that fighters get more proficiencies, rangers get favored enemies, and barbs get enrage.. Dual/multi class time and now your front line fighter looks like crap.

My half-elf cleric/ranger outdpsed and out-tanked minsc so badly that i just gave him a longbow and had 4 ranged (minsc, mazzy, aerie, imoen). While korgan and charname gibbed eveyone and tanked beholders like they were kobolds.

Lord_Tansheron

@Abi_Dalzim‌ @bengoshi‌ Slings are quite decent now that they gain STR bonuses, so that compensates somewhat for the loss in pips/APR. Can Archers dual, though? Pretty sure that last time I tried my Archer simply could not dual at all, but I tend to have so many mods I can hardly rely on these things anymore...

I suppose it could be interesting to try an A->C if it's possible. Full buffs + Sling + Archer bonus could translate into a lot of damage...

JuliusBorisov

@Lord_Tansheron‌

In BG:EE and BG2:EE an archer can dual-class into a cleric - you need to have a Wisdom score of 17.

Lord_Tansheron

Good to know! I'll add that to my list of combinations to try out, then.

Klorox

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

You will also have the racial enemy bonus [Spiders, Dragons, etc] and a bit of Stealth which can combo very well with Sanctuary [think Dagger of Venom].

I don't think any cleric will be using the Dagger of Venom.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

bengoshi said:

@Abi_Dalzim‌

Actually, the archer bonuse DO apply to slings. Yes, he can't put 5 pips into this weapon (only 2) but still he gets all his kit bonuses when using a sling as it's a missile weapon.

So, an archer with a sling gets the +1 damage & hit every 3 levels, gets the Dex bonus to Thac0, gets the Str bonus to his damage. The Called shot ability applies to slings as well.

Does that mean that Clerics with slings benefit from the Bracers of Archery from the "World's fastest Dart Thrower"?

@Klorox: Yup, my bad!!

elminster

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

bengoshi said:

@Abi_Dalzim‌

Actually, the archer bonuse DO apply to slings. Yes, he can't put 5 pips into this weapon (only 2) but still he gets all his kit bonuses when using a sling as it's a missile weapon.

So, an archer with a sling gets the +1 damage & hit every 3 levels, gets the Dex bonus to Thac0, gets the Str bonus to his damage. The Called shot ability applies to slings as well.

Does that mean that Clerics with slings benefit from the Bracers of Archery from the "World's fastest Dart Thrower"?

@Klorox: Yup, my bad!!

Clerics and Cleric/thieves can't wear the bracers of archery.

Abi_Dalzim

elminster said:

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

bengoshi said:

@Abi_Dalzim‌

Actually, the archer bonuse DO apply to slings. Yes, he can't put 5 pips into this weapon (only 2) but still he gets all his kit bonuses when using a sling as it's a missile weapon.

So, an archer with a sling gets the +1 damage & hit every 3 levels, gets the Dex bonus to Thac0, gets the Str bonus to his damage. The Called shot ability applies to slings as well.

Does that mean that Clerics with slings benefit from the Bracers of Archery from the "World's fastest Dart Thrower"?

@Klorox: Yup, my bad!!

Clerics and Cleric/thieves can't wear the bracers of archery.

Surely the latter would be able to do so with Use Any Item, though?

elminster

Abi_Dalzim said:

elminster said:

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

bengoshi said:

@Abi_Dalzim‌

Actually, the archer bonuse DO apply to slings. Yes, he can't put 5 pips into this weapon (only 2) but still he gets all his kit bonuses when using a sling as it's a missile weapon.

So, an archer with a sling gets the +1 damage & hit every 3 levels, gets the Dex bonus to Thac0, gets the Str bonus to his damage. The Called shot ability applies to slings as well.

Does that mean that Clerics with slings benefit from the Bracers of Archery from the "World's fastest Dart Thrower"?

@Klorox: Yup, my bad!!

Clerics and Cleric/thieves can't wear the bracers of archery.

Surely the latter would be able to do so with Use Any Item, though?

Yea but then they wouldn't be coming from the "World's fastest Dart Thrower". I probably could have been more specific than to just say cleric and cleric/thieves, but needless to say they can't be used by any cleric or cleric dual/multiclass unless they have UAI (which at that point its such a small bonus that they aren't really worth it).

OlvynChuru

A non-legit ranger/cleric is absolutely hilarious in non-enhanced BG1. Let's say you have six max-level ranger/clerics, each with 25 Wisdom and two rings of holiness. They will each be able to cast six level 3 spells per day, and seven level 4 spells per day. So that means six Animate Dead spells and seven Summon Animals 1. Animate Dead in the original summoned one weak skeleton per level, and Summon Animals 1 summoned up to eight wild dogs or wolves. At level seven and with six party members, that means a maximum of 252 skeletons and 336 animals. That's what happens when there's no summoning limit.

dreamrider

So, what is the appropriate name for an Archer > Cleric? ... David?

Lord_Tansheron

Remote Baptist

Rocks from God

Do-You-Even-Sling

Concussive Conversion

Blessings in a Bullet

Projectile Proselytizer

Dexai

Ok I'm all out now.