Powergaming the Bard (through the whole trilogy)

Klorox

What kits are the power gamers choice in BG1-ToB?

I don't have much experience with Bards. Looking at them from the outside makes Blades look very effective. Skalds too (more party members/summons make him even better!). The Jester ability is pretty sweet looking and even kitless looks to have a nice niche.

I am looking at this character as a backup mage with a few extras thrown in there.

Blackraven

Blade is generally considered the powergaming kit to use. Their Spins and weapon (style) specialization, complemented by magical buffs (haste, stoneskins, pfmw etc) make them excellent fighters, without really giving up anything major that the other Bards have going for them. Your lore will still be fine, and your pickpocketing too (and it can always be boosted with potions if needed). Even having a song that doesn't improve won't really hurt you since the other Bards' songs aren't that great either.
Now if you installed the Rogue Rebalancing mod, the song would make a difference. Especially the Skald's song in a warrior-heavy party, but considering that magic > melee in SoA/ToB I'd still call the Blade the most powerful Bard.

JuliusBorisov

I hugely agree with @Blackraven‌ on this matter.

I like bards and think that playing with a bard charname is one of the funniest experiences you can get in BG.

I can add, however, that I can't think of any bard as a power gamers' choice. A F/M/T? Of course. A F/M? Of course. A kensai or a berserker dualled into a mage? Of course. A ranger/cleric? Of course. But not a bard.

Of all three kits, the most potential to solo the game on power belongs to a Blade. Due to his Offensive Spins added to dual-wielding and using all magic buffs availabe he can annihilate enemies quickly.

But all these buffs and spins have a relatively short duration so a Blade cannot be as much effective as a F/M/T, a F/M and others. The lack of "fighter" part (that is THACO, damage, HLAs) diminishes the Blade's power.

A Skald can make your party shine. But I don't think he's a choice for powergamers. Maybe only a party with 5 Skalds and one F/M(T)? The effects of their songs will be cumulative, so this character will simply rip any one off. But then it will be a F/M(T) that is OP, not Skalds.

A Jester and his confusion offers a very interesting playthrough, you can check http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/34725/halizurex-the-pacifist-mass-murderer#latest for e.g. but a Jester is hardly a power gamers' choice as well.

So, bards are wonderful and interesting, their stronghold quest is fun but I would not call them OP. They can solo the game, each of them, but they won't be OP. And a Blade is the most "powerful" of all them.

Klorox

Thanks.

I actually looking to avoid the powergaming choice here. I like the idea of a support character. I really want the character to still be effective though.

I'm just trying to decide if I want a Jester, Skald, or kitless. They all seem really fun in their own right.

I think Jester or kitless fits the Candlekeep history best.

abacus

Look into possibly using the Rogue Rebalancing mod... It does some really interesting things with Bards.

KingGhidorah

The problem with blades is that they tend to be somewhat underpowered during the BG1 part of the saga imho. You can't reach proper dual wielding greatness yet and they don't really stand their ground into melee at lower levels.

Jesters are the other way around, when invisible he can cast unlimited confusion without being detected, and he gets high lore and pickpocket which are actually useful in BG1. But in tob he will likely be overwhelmed because his curse song doesn't get a special HLA and every toddler can see invisibility.

abacus

KingGhidorah said:

The problem with blades is that they tend to be somewhat underpowered during the BG1 part of the saga imho. You can't reach proper dual wielding greatness yet and they don't really stand their ground into melee at lower levels.

Jesters are the other way around, when invisible he can cast unlimited confusion without being detected, and he gets high lore and pickpocket which are actually useful in BG1. But in tob he will likely be overwhelmed because his curse song doesn't get a special HLA and every toddler can see invisibility.

Rogue Rebalancing fixes all these issues... Blades start with *** in TWFS, and all songs (except Blades) improve with level.

OlvynChuru

bengoshi said:

A Skald can make your party shine. But I don't think he's a choice for powergamers. Maybe only a party with 5 Skalds and one F/M(T)? The effects of their songs will be cumulative, so this character will simply rip any one off. But then it will be a F/M(T) that is OP, not Skalds.

I'd like to add that you don't need a F/M/T to go along with all the skalds. Let's say you have 5 skalds and a generic fighter who uses darts. By level 13 the fighter will be able to throw 5 darts per round. Cast Improved Haste on him/her and make that 10. And then you have the skald songs. Once they hit level 15 (I think) they give each other a total bonus of 20 to damage, THAC0 and AC. Make them all cast Mislead and make that 40. So if the fighter is using the Crimson Dart, he/she will do 49-51 damage per hit, ten times per round, with -24 AC. Of course the fighter is the one who is OP, but the skalds are the ones who are making him/her OP.