Make Pickpocketing (more) Worthwhile

NancyButtpeach

Current Behavior: Many NPCs have nothing on them to pickpocket, not even weapons or gold.

Expected Behavior: Make all NPCs have items on them that can be pickpocketed. It could be just a dagger and a few gold coins, or a potion. It would also be nice if their possessions fit who and where they are. It will make playing a thief a lot more fun. It is always disappointing to re-load three times after trying to pick a guard's pocket, then find nothing.

Ward

I support, but mainly due to the fact that I enjoy your chin.

Your name is difficult to understand though, friend.

HvitrEbrithil

True... But for my count, I think I would end up spending WAAAAY too much time pickpocketing, just in-case they carried something epic... Would be my fault, not the game's, but still xD

Dragonfolk2000

I wouldn't say that all NPCs should have something to pickpocket but there could be a sort of 'random drop' system for pickpocketing an NPC with very few NPCs actually having preset items to take.

Edvin

Actually, this is very good idead.

In BG1 ( even BG2 ) is only few guys what have something worthy pickpocketing.
Some random loot ( like 5 - 100 G, gems, normal weapons, potions or VERY small chance on weapons +1 ) will be good and it´s not hard to set it in scripts.

I am sorry to call you again @Tanthalas but you are most active and co-operative moderator
What did you think about this ?

O_Bruce

I would rather have punishment for thievery changed to something much less absurd. But, why not.

Tanthalas

I think its a good idea, but I'm not one of the developers and getting me to look at these topics doesn't improve the chances of them being implemented.

Miloch

Actually, I always thought pickpocketing was way too easy and profitable in BG1. The only real worry you have is pickpocketing Algernon, who should always be your first target after Candlekeep. And let's face it, it's rather silly to be able to pick someone's pocket for a *cloak* nevermind a cloak that has unlimited charm capability. After that, no worries about the guards, since you just charm all your targets before looting them dry (same goes for looting their houses etc.).

Now what I thought would be cool is if there were actually other thieves operating on the Sword Coast, and you'd have to worry about getting *your* pockets picked while walking through Beregost or Baldur's Gate. Let's face it, cities are full of thieves, the wilderness is full of bandits, and you are likely to be the most attractive targets.

NancyButtpeach

@Miloch: I forgot about the Algernon Cloak. That could be addressed in a number of ways, or it could just be left as an exploit.

I really like the idea of getting things stolen from you, especially if there is a way to track the thief down or follow the stolen item. I would like more role-play encounters like this myself, something similar to those in RoA: Startrail. I also wouldn't mind a few randomized quests that change in their details and content from session to session.

For instance, there could be a thief who can be encountered in three to four different areas. In one of them he attempts to steal something, and you have to track him down. In another, you might come upon a party of ogres, and find his corpse on your gear, along with some other ill-gotten gains. In another screen he might offer you his life in exchange for a treasure map to the Flesh Golem lair, et cetera.

I actually think adding some of this kind of roleplaying randomness could really add a new dimension to Baldur's Gate, be it 1, 2 or 3 ;-) it would greatly increase the re-playability.

Miloch

Sounds a bit Zorkish, though no one will get that reference . Anyway, Zork was one of the first adventure games - basically a text-driven treasure hunt. Main setback was every so often after finding various treasures, a thief would wander in and loot you dry. And he was a much better thief than you (early on anyway) so your chances of overcoming him were practically nil... until later in the game anyway, where you could track him down to his lair, finally kill him and get all your (ill gotten) treasure back. But yeah, I always thought it'd make a lot of sense to have other people doing similar things as you in these games. A bit of competition, as it were.

Edvin

New pickpocketing in action:

Gorion: "You're a fool if you'd believe I'd trust your benevolence! Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt..."
Sarevok: "I'm sorry you feel that way old man..."
Sarevok: Wait...
Sarevok: Huh...
Sarevok: Where is my sword ?!
CHARNAME: You mean THIS sword ?
Sarevok: **** !

LadyRhian

@Edvin I'd love to be able to replace someone's weapon with a broken one (like a broken sword made with iron from the Nashkel mines). Imagine combat like that. Especially Tazok and Tranzig...

Moomintroll

I'm sure there's a game out there where you can make cursed rings and then sneakily put them into people's pockets, that'd so mean. There should be better rewards for pickpocket, if only to make that bard quicklslot more than a wasted space.

Edvin

Tanthalas said:

I think its a good idea, but I'm not one of the developers and getting me to look at these topics doesn't improve the chances of them being implemented.

So, who we need call ?

There is many things in Feature Requests.
Some are good, some are´t so good...

But sometimes have some peoples brilliant ideas ( i was see at least ten i that section ) what are smart and very easy to do. That kind ideas may really improve BG:E.

It would be nice if sometimes someone from developer team say in that topic:

"" Yes that is good idea and we can do it. ""

Silence

Yeah, it's kind of funny. We have no idea what threads they are reading. You would assume that they look at the more popular threads (and mods) for inspiration as to what features to add. But this may not be the case. I imagine they're implementing mandatory fixes, graphical improvements and ease of use changes, but are not going to touch fundamental gameplay.

Once we see BG:EE, it'll be easier to understand their thought process.

kamuizin

In BG Pickpocket is already well used, there's no need to improve it. Half of the stores on this game can be stolen. The fact only few NPCs are worthwhile of steal, doesn't mean that the skill has no use (as happens in NWN2 for example).

Other thief skills should be better worked, for example what's the utility of move in silence? the game doesn't make spot or listen checks (they don't exist in BG/BG2) so this skill absolutelly does nothing (i only take it for roleplay pruposes).

MilesBeyond

Moomintroll said:

I'm sure there's a game out there where you can make cursed rings and then sneakily put them into people's pockets, that'd so mean. There should be better rewards for pickpocket, if only to make that bard quicklslot more than a wasted space.

Heh, oh man, this was a huge part of Morrowind. The ability to enchant your own cursed rings then reverse pick-pocket them onto people you wanted dead... Priceless.

Of course, you could do the same in Fallout, just with C4, rather than magical curses.


@kamuizin AFAIK Move Silently is what is rolled when determining whether you stay in Stealth, i.e. Hide in Shadows determines your initial stealth roll and Move Silently determines every one after that until Stealth is broken.

kamuizin

I made characters with no addition to hide in shadows at all @MilesBeyond and they keep in the shadows, so are you sure of your info or you just read this somewhere?

Move silently shoud be used agains feat checks of spot and listen, but as there's no feats in BG/BG2 there's no way to detect a invisible person other than magical means or check hability from thiefs. Maybe move silently is used against detect illusions from another thief, but i don't know for certain this.

Silence

@MilesBeyond: Seems logical. I thought it worked that way but have no proof

@Kamuizin: Speaking of Detect Illusions, I no idea what this skill actually does. It might be useful, but I almost never invest in it.

kamuizin

@Silence in theory this skill can cancel any illusion, be it magical (an spell) or natural (a thief hide in shadows).

But we always focus first in pick locks and detect traps (and maybe in hide in shadows and move silently), so normally detect illusion is always neglected.

Unfortunally, traps and locks are a big issue in BG, not only because normally any trap in this game cause serious damages or are deadly in other ways (disintegrate trap, flesh to stone trap... etc...), but they earn a good amount of experience that make a huge difference on the gameplay.

Roller12

I would rather see failed pickpocked mechanis reworked. Entire town going hostile is not fun. Im pretty content with pickpocketing amount actually, there are some very cool items there, Very cool items, aside from the OP cloak there are eagle bows, gauntlets of weapon skill, interesting helmets.. and other stuff.

Miloch

@Roller12 - Rogue Rebalancing already does this, I believe.

There is indeed plenty to pickpocket in BG1 (for example you can loot several items off all the Amnish guards in Nashkel). Some randomisation would be nice though - perhaps something I could add to the Realistic Random Treasures component of Aurora's Shoes.

Anduin

@Miloch

Aurora's Shoes rocks. Great Mod. Pickpocketing shouldn't be tooo rewarding, but should still give you something worthwhile... or you wouldn't bother. Perhaps reducing randomisation a little...

Pickpocket a wizard you should get a wizard scroll or money.

Pickpocket a cleric you should get a cleric scroll, potion, weapon or money.

Pickpocket a barbarian you should get a weapon, necklace or gem (coins are too civilised)

Pickpocket a fighter you should get a piece of equipment like a shield, arrows, weapons or money.

Pickpocket a bard or monk you should get very little... Bards spend all there money in the pub. Monks onlu use their fists!

Pickpocketing a peasent should recieve very little money or nothing.

Pickpocket a merchent and you should recieve a gem, money or expensive piece of equipment.

Pickpocket another rogue should result in... a fight!

LadyRhian

There was an article in one Dragon Magazine with things for rogues to find when they pick pockets... "2 slimy silvers, a leaky bottle labelled sword oil and a handkerchief. Oh, it's been recently used..."

"12 coppers, 5 silvers, 2 gold and a bunch of cracked, empty nutshells."

http://s13.invisionfree.com/DMs_Den/ar/t368.htm

It was originally from Dragon Magazine #207.

Also, this: http://sloshedhobbit.blogspot.com/2010/05/trifling-treasures-ordinary-objects-to.html

kamuizin

Would be nice if any pickpocket reward addition implemented was of viable size (as the size should raise equivalent the difficult of any steal attempt) . Scrolls, rings and potions for example are ok, but steal a tower shield when pickpocketing an individual is a little too much (except when stealing direct from the store, i think).

Shaewaros

I agree that there should be more unique items that can be only found by pickpocketing. The most practical use for pickpocketing skill was obviously stealing from stores, I'd like to see the HC element of pickpocketing more widely used in the game.