It's interesting for me coming upon a thread like this. The main reason is that I started on BGII and never played the original. Because of this, my perspective is probably slightly skewed (for a low price I'm getting a "new" game that I've never played in an updated and possibly easier-to-mod form). I don't mind about any lack of graphical improvement for the second iteration, because BGII has remained one of my favorite games of all time, and now it may be even better (and this is without considering the numerous mods that I've missed over the years). I play the entire game through over and over simply to test out a single new mod each time.
I can understand, in a sense, being disappointed about paying for a game that one has already played and doesn't consider amazing (or, at least, when considered next to BGII). For me personally, in this case, I would be paying for an updated game that I probably enjoyed as well as investing in the hope it paves a golden path for a possible BGIII (eventually) and beyond.
Hopefully nostalgia, a desire for the great writing of the past, and opening up people's hearts to this kind of game through the mobile market will give the company the support that it needs to thrive.
It is definitely our hope to provide you all with some more hi-def screenshots prior to ship. Just be aware that it might be a little while yet - anything we want to post publically in terms of game assets and the like has to go through a pretty exhaustive approval process first. We'll share as soon as we can.
As much as I'd like to, it's really hard for me to accept this at face value. To be perfectly honest, this statement feels disingenuous.
The game is set to release on September 18th. That is exactly two weeks from today. Retail games typically go "gold" more than a month prior to release. I realize you're not going retail with the game, and therefore do not have to allow that time for production and distribution, but there are a number of things you DO need to have the game completed for.
Final QA/bugtesting work cannot be done on a game too incomplete for representative screenshots. The ESRB and other agencies cannot rate games too incomplete for representative screenshots. And I believe Apple has to approve all iOS software, which means they--like the ESRB--require a near-to-final build of the game to go over. These are not the kinds of things you put off until the last week before release. Or at least they don't seem like.
And trying to justify this conspicuous absence by saying it's "too hard" that there's too much bureaucratic nonsense going on at Beamdog to get basic screenshots of the game running with the advertised new UI and advertised high-resolution display... I'm sorry, but in what universe does that come across as a good thing to tell consumers and/or potential consumers? Beamdog is not a large company. When you imply that it's so difficult for you to accomplish so simple--so requisite--a thing, it makes us question your basic competence.
I want to love you guys, I do. You're reviving the Infinity Engine! I've been dreaming of this day ever since I cracked open an issue of PC gamer, read a preview of Icewind Dale 2, and learned that it would be the last IE game.
I agree with Arsane_Lupin, I just don't say it in topics because I'm just going to get the same answer over and over again. This bureaucratic stuff makes me think that Hasbro or who ever has the license doesn't take this project srsly.
@Arsene_Lupin The bureaucratic nonsense is not internal to Beamdog, it is because of the fact that the rights to the Baldurs Gate franchise are split between several different companies, all of which want a slice of the pie. Wizards of the Coast owns the right to the 2E D&D ruleset, Atari owns the rights to the Baldur's Gate title and EA (through Bioware) owns the rights to the Infinity Engine. Frankly, it's a miracle that a small company like Beamdog was able to get all these entities to agree to the BG:EE project at all (I think it's been said that the legal wrangling alone took about 14 months), so I'm prepared to cut them a bit of slack when it comes to things like being restricted in what they can release. It's beyond their control. If they have to send each screenshot to three different companies for approval before releasing it then it's no wonder it's taking so long.
Considering that BGEE is running on the BG2/ToB engine and the original content isn't being modified, the ESRB has more than enough stuff to go on to rate the game (if the game even requires an ESRB rating). It has also already been stated that the Mac/iOS versions aren't being released on the 18th anyway, so I imagine that BGEE will only be sent for approval after the game is finalized.
Is the game in a state that there can be screenshots? Certainly. But it doesn't depend solely on Overhaul, and whether we like it or not the bureacracy is there.
Most of you are blaming Hasbro and the others for not allowing changes. I think this is for the best, we are lucky the situation is as it is. Too much overhaul and BG might have changed too much. Hasbro and the others intentions might have been "not the best" but the end result is perfect to me.
I expect those visual improvements (that many wanted now) in BG3.
Honestly, I understand very well that the Beamdog team would rather spend their time polishing the game than deal with the bureaucracy of getting approval to release screenshots, etc..
Sure, it seems like it would be a good idea to release game previews/trailers/screenshots/whatever in terms of business and marketing, but think of it this way: as soon as the game hits, those screenshots are going to be all over the place anyway, without the hassle on Beamdog's part.
Being in development is probably quite costly for a small company, and I can understand the need to finish up the core game and get it out there. Working on new content that can be released "post-ship" is probably going to be more comfortable in that respect.
What this tells me is that the game will not be ready 9/18. I hope that means they will spend the time to get it right and release later. Hopefully they won't just push it out 9/18 in whatever state it is in. Other than the fact that I am jacked up to play BGEE, this isn't the end of the world. They are a small team and cannot just throw more people at the problems that inevitably arise. I have waited a long time for an updated BG, I can wait some more if it will mean it will come out ready to rock.
@triclops41 In case there really is a reason to worry here, I will try to conjure up some wise words: When the 18th comes, do not cast haste, cast time stop instead, and use it to polish the result.
I'm not getting the bit where there's a need for screenshots yet. Not that people shouldn't be able to preview - more that they can just wait without pre-buying until they see the finished product. Or am I missing something?
I'm not getting the bit where there's a need for screenshots yet. Not that people shouldn't be able to preview - more that they can just wait without pre-buying until they see the finished product. Or am I missing something?
It appears to me to just be people looking for reasons to be upset...looking for conspiracies....due to some companies actions in the past I dont really blame them except the whole question of screen shots has been asked and answered so.... uhhh lets move on?
@arsene_lupin the funny thing is, if everything you said is true, i wont give a damn. I love the old game, im sure ill love the enhanced edition even more. And buddy 20 bucks AINT bad. And I would consider myself to be quite poor at the moment.
1.) No one here, not in this thread, not in the forum, not in the whole of the Internet is making any claim or conjecture of conspiracy. Hell, I'd almost call the mere act of stating something like that a serious indicator of mental instability, or at the very least of massive reading comprehension issues.
I say almost because I think a civil discourse is important, and belittling people you disagree with is crude, crass and more than anything else--silly.
2.) The issue of why we haven't seen screenshots--real screenshots that adequately represent the product--has NOT been resolved. A question was asked, and the only reply is seemingly disingenuous--as I've already explained. (Just scroll up). Several of you are assuming that EVERY SINGLE LICENSE HOLDER INVOLVED has to sign off on every single piece of media released.
That is absurd. I used all caps to highlight how absurd it is: it is very absurd.
The facts at hand are: when asked to explain why there were no (real) screenshots of the game in circulation (all of the released screenshots being low-resolution shots with zero UI displayed), a Beamdog representative stated that it was simply "too hard."
The facts at hand are: Beamdog is either unwilling or incapable of sharing with its current and prospective consumers -any- details of what the final (likely already-finished) product actually is.
The facts at hand hare: Beamdog has already made more than thirty-thousand dollars (USD) from pre-orders.
As a consumer, and as a human being, I find the current state of affairs to be extremely worrying. Maybe I'm making a fuss about nothing. Maybe, come the 18th, all will be well and good. But maybe it won't. Whether it will or will not is not the point here: the point is that these are the kinds of questions that consumers should NOT be asking in the first place.
If you're selling a game, if you're making tens of thousands of dollars in sales in the span of a few weeks... you do not refuse to share screenshots with the community, media, etc. And you don't tell people it's too hard, either. It's unprofessional and unwise. Like I said before, I want to love Beamdog, I do, but it's hard to love a company that treats its consumers with such an unprofessional disregard.
3.) A single screenshot is not too much to ask for. Especially when the only real, tangible improvements they're making are a new UI and the ability to display properly at high resolutions.
Without those screens, it just looks like they're taking the original game, adding some mods to it, and selling it for twice as much as GOG.
@Arsene_Lupin All we've eaten mate for the last four bleeding weeks is lupin soup, roast lupin, steamed lupin, braised lupin in lupin sauce, lupin in the basket with sauted lupins, lupin meringue pie, lupin. sorbet... we sit on lupins, we sleep in lupins, we feed the cat on lupins, we burn lupins, we even wear the bloody things!
No but really I only bought BG:EE to support it. I bought it on the off chance I won't have to mod anymore, if it sucks I'll be disappointed.
Well, we know what we're getting for sure by looking at the main website... New characters, new adventure, 400+fixes, better multiplayer support and mod support and smoother operation on newer systems. Which is more than "adding a few mods and selling it at twice the price".
If this is not worth the money for you, then I say dont buy it. They have always been a bit unwilling to come forth on the visual improvements with solid information and I myself am a little suspicious. But I do believe this is because they are still working on it, tweaking it etc.
But yeah. Dont buy it, wait for release and then base your decision off what everyone elses screens look like. However for beamdog to say all the stuff they have been then release it looking rubbish with exactly the same UI and the higher resolutions looking like the widescreen mod would be suicide for them probably.
If they're not releasing screenshots this close to the release, I would have to assume that they wish to keep customers in suspense. It isn't that it's too difficult technically.
It doesn't make sense that they would be contractually limited from releasing screenshots. Screenshots are obviously required for marketing. And, clearly, internet marketing is crucial to an enterprise such as this.
I can only cross my fingers at this point that BG:EE will look noticeably prettier than tutu or BGT via
- higher native resolutions - zoom feature - source area art filtered via hardware to scale it as required and enable the zoom in/out feature - flipbook animation transparency and alpha blending for BAM files - new hi-res GUI - new hi-res cinematics
If these improvements are too intangible to really register then I think Beamdog will have a problem.
Here's hoping that those improvements will actually exceed expectations! (Expectations that frankly are not all that high compared with an HD re-rendered game.)
From what I've gathered, they are not prohibited, but they do have to go through a lengthy approval process where the larger companies, WotC and presumably Atari, have to sign off on any game material that is released. If this takes a couple of weeks to do each time, then there's no point in spending the effort to go through that process this close to release.
And, frankly, they have released screenshots (albeit from earlier in development) and music, and a lot of information about their process via these forums and twitter, etc..
The facts at hand are: when asked to explain why there were no (real) screenshots of the game in circulation (all of the released screenshots being low-resolution shots with zero UI displayed), a Beamdog representative stated that it was simply "too hard."
There are at least some pics of the new UI, displayed on ipad, here:
Like I said before, I want to love Beamdog, I do, but it's hard to love a company that treats its consumers with such an unprofessional disregard.
I just want to say that I wish EVERY DEVELOPER will treat its consumers "with such an unprofessional disregard" like Beamdog does!!!!
If screenshots is what you worry about, than wait for the release date to decide. but most of us who pre-ordered know what we are getting, as @Excalibur_2102 said:
New characters, new adventure(s), 400+fixes, better multiplayer support and mod support and smoother operation on newer systems, more modding friendly, no loading screens, new world map, improved journal, new portraits +voice sets.
If all the if this things I listed above are just "taking the original game, adding some mods to it" for you, so even a screenshot wont convince you to buy it- I suggest you just to wait for reviews after the release at the different gaming site, as reliable as they are....
Do I need as a Baldurs Gate Fan screenshots to know that this are great additions and well worth my money?? NO
Would I like to see screenshots of the game before release? yes - but as you said before, Beamdog IS a small company - and with a draconic contract involved BIG companies such as Wotc and Atari, this is the reality. You dont like it, I dont like it and everybody else dont like it, but there is nothing to be done about it but to wait to 18th September - And hopefully if BG:EE is a success the Devs will have more "freedom of movement" working on BG2:EE.
I am happy with my pre-purchase of BGEE as the last time I tried to install BG with Mods it was just unplayable on my PC, I know this has more to do with me than my own PC.
IMHO, What I am getting for the 17,99 $ I paid including stable multiplayer is well worth the spent money.
Having said this and as I have already paid for BGEE, I must say it is strange no new screenshots have appeared since the last Time Counter reached zero and pre-purchases were available. We did get an image on the AMMA from Phillip Daigle saying soon.
That was a week ago. I understand soon as before the 18th september.
As for a Tweet from @Trentoster of the 24th August he said screenshots were weeks away. That was nearly three weeks ago and we are now only 11 days from release, I hope I am wrong but I really doubt we will see any before release.
He also mentions on Beamdogs´ forum the following:
21 days ago Screenshots are a little away yet. We still have some real doozer graphical glitches to fix before we can take shots and then get them approved -Trent
So unless they still have problems (which I hope not) I do not understand why we cannot have a sneak peek of what we are getting.
I dont care, I cant play BG easily right now and I will be happy to have it upgraded to windows 7, and made stable. and if this will go to fund bg3 adventure more power to it.
Keep in mind that convention season in the U.S. is well underway, and WotC and Atari both have significant presences at many cons. When the powers that be are at cons, they don't have much time for discussing and approving screenshots and the like. Just another thing that adds to the delay.
Beamdog is a small team, and I'd rather see them focus on releasing a BGEE they're proud of on 9/18, than get bogged down in screenshots and discussions and approvals, oh my.
Comments
I can understand, in a sense, being disappointed about paying for a game that one has already played and doesn't consider amazing (or, at least, when considered next to BGII). For me personally, in this case, I would be paying for an updated game that I probably enjoyed as well as investing in the hope it paves a golden path for a possible BGIII (eventually) and beyond.
Hopefully nostalgia, a desire for the great writing of the past, and opening up people's hearts to this kind of game through the mobile market will give the company the support that it needs to thrive.
The game is set to release on September 18th. That is exactly two weeks from today. Retail games typically go "gold" more than a month prior to release. I realize you're not going retail with the game, and therefore do not have to allow that time for production and distribution, but there are a number of things you DO need to have the game completed for.
Final QA/bugtesting work cannot be done on a game too incomplete for representative screenshots. The ESRB and other agencies cannot rate games too incomplete for representative screenshots. And I believe Apple has to approve all iOS software, which means they--like the ESRB--require a near-to-final build of the game to go over. These are not the kinds of things you put off until the last week before release. Or at least they don't seem like.
And trying to justify this conspicuous absence by saying it's "too hard" that there's too much bureaucratic nonsense going on at Beamdog to get basic screenshots of the game running with the advertised new UI and advertised high-resolution display... I'm sorry, but in what universe does that come across as a good thing to tell consumers and/or potential consumers? Beamdog is not a large company. When you imply that it's so difficult for you to accomplish so simple--so requisite--a thing, it makes us question your basic competence.
I want to love you guys, I do. You're reviving the Infinity Engine! I've been dreaming of this day ever since I cracked open an issue of PC gamer, read a preview of Icewind Dale 2, and learned that it would be the last IE game.
But you guys are -not- making it easy.
The bureaucratic nonsense is not internal to Beamdog, it is because of the fact that the rights to the Baldurs Gate franchise are split between several different companies, all of which want a slice of the pie. Wizards of the Coast owns the right to the 2E D&D ruleset, Atari owns the rights to the Baldur's Gate title and EA (through Bioware) owns the rights to the Infinity Engine. Frankly, it's a miracle that a small company like Beamdog was able to get all these entities to agree to the BG:EE project at all (I think it's been said that the legal wrangling alone took about 14 months), so I'm prepared to cut them a bit of slack when it comes to things like being restricted in what they can release. It's beyond their control. If they have to send each screenshot to three different companies for approval before releasing it then it's no wonder it's taking so long.
Is the game in a state that there can be screenshots? Certainly. But it doesn't depend solely on Overhaul, and whether we like it or not the bureacracy is there.
I expect those visual improvements (that many wanted now) in BG3.
Sure, it seems like it would be a good idea to release game previews/trailers/screenshots/whatever in terms of business and marketing, but think of it this way: as soon as the game hits, those screenshots are going to be all over the place anyway, without the hassle on Beamdog's part.
Being in development is probably quite costly for a small company, and I can understand the need to finish up the core game and get it out there. Working on new content that can be released "post-ship" is probably going to be more comfortable in that respect.
Other than the fact that I am jacked up to play BGEE, this isn't the end of the world. They are a small team and cannot just throw more people at the problems that inevitably arise.
I have waited a long time for an updated BG, I can wait some more if it will mean it will come out ready to rock.
In case there really is a reason to worry here, I will try to conjure up some wise words:
When the 18th comes,
do not cast haste,
cast time stop instead,
and use it to polish the result.
1.) No one here, not in this thread, not in the forum, not in the whole of the Internet is making any claim or conjecture of conspiracy. Hell, I'd almost call the mere act of stating something like that a serious indicator of mental instability, or at the very least of massive reading comprehension issues.
I say almost because I think a civil discourse is important, and belittling people you disagree with is crude, crass and more than anything else--silly.
2.) The issue of why we haven't seen screenshots--real screenshots that adequately represent the product--has NOT been resolved. A question was asked, and the only reply is seemingly disingenuous--as I've already explained. (Just scroll up). Several of you are assuming that EVERY SINGLE LICENSE HOLDER INVOLVED has to sign off on every single piece of media released.
That is absurd. I used all caps to highlight how absurd it is: it is very absurd.
The facts at hand are: when asked to explain why there were no (real) screenshots of the game in circulation (all of the released screenshots being low-resolution shots with zero UI displayed), a Beamdog representative stated that it was simply "too hard."
The facts at hand are: Beamdog is either unwilling or incapable of sharing with its current and prospective consumers -any- details of what the final (likely already-finished) product actually is.
The facts at hand hare: Beamdog has already made more than thirty-thousand dollars (USD) from pre-orders.
As a consumer, and as a human being, I find the current state of affairs to be extremely worrying. Maybe I'm making a fuss about nothing. Maybe, come the 18th, all will be well and good. But maybe it won't. Whether it will or will not is not the point here: the point is that these are the kinds of questions that consumers should NOT be asking in the first place.
If you're selling a game, if you're making tens of thousands of dollars in sales in the span of a few weeks... you do not refuse to share screenshots with the community, media, etc. And you don't tell people it's too hard, either. It's unprofessional and unwise. Like I said before, I want to love Beamdog, I do, but it's hard to love a company that treats its consumers with such an unprofessional disregard.
3.) A single screenshot is not too much to ask for. Especially when the only real, tangible improvements they're making are a new UI and the ability to display properly at high resolutions.
Without those screens, it just looks like they're taking the original game, adding some mods to it, and selling it for twice as much as GOG.
No but really I only bought BG:EE to support it. I bought it on the off chance I won't have to mod anymore, if it sucks I'll be disappointed.
1PP and new GUI is not a good sign so far.
If this is not worth the money for you, then I say dont buy it. They have always been a bit unwilling to come forth on the visual improvements with solid information and I myself am a little suspicious. But I do believe this is because they are still working on it, tweaking it etc.
But yeah. Dont buy it, wait for release and then base your decision off what everyone elses screens look like. However for beamdog to say all the stuff they have been then release it looking rubbish with exactly the same UI and the higher resolutions looking like the widescreen mod would be suicide for them probably.
It doesn't make sense that they would be contractually limited from releasing screenshots. Screenshots are obviously required for marketing. And, clearly, internet marketing is crucial to an enterprise such as this.
I can only cross my fingers at this point that BG:EE will look noticeably prettier than tutu or BGT via
- higher native resolutions
- zoom feature
- source area art filtered via hardware to scale it as required and enable the zoom in/out feature
- flipbook animation transparency and alpha blending for BAM files
- new hi-res GUI
- new hi-res cinematics
If these improvements are too intangible to really register then I think Beamdog will have a problem.
Here's hoping that those improvements will actually exceed expectations! (Expectations that frankly are not all that high compared with an HD re-rendered game.)
And, frankly, they have released screenshots (albeit from earlier in development) and music, and a lot of information about their process via these forums and twitter, etc..
http://baldursgate.com/ipad.en.html
If screenshots is what you worry about, than wait for the release date to decide. but most of us who pre-ordered know what we are getting, as @Excalibur_2102 said:
New characters, new adventure(s), 400+fixes, better multiplayer support and mod support and smoother operation on newer systems, more modding friendly, no loading screens, new world map, improved journal, new portraits +voice sets.
If all the if this things I listed above are just "taking the original game, adding some mods to it" for you, so even a screenshot wont convince you to buy it- I suggest you just to wait for reviews after the release at the different gaming site, as reliable as they are....
Do I need as a Baldurs Gate Fan screenshots to know that this are great additions and well worth my money?? NO
Would I like to see screenshots of the game before release? yes - but as you said before, Beamdog IS a small company - and with a draconic contract involved BIG companies such as Wotc and Atari, this is the reality. You dont like it, I dont like it and everybody else dont like it, but there is nothing to be done about it but to wait to 18th September - And hopefully if BG:EE is a success the Devs will have more "freedom of movement" working on BG2:EE.
IMHO, What I am getting for the 17,99 $ I paid including stable multiplayer is well worth the spent money.
Having said this and as I have already paid for BGEE, I must say it is strange no new screenshots have appeared since the last Time Counter reached zero and pre-purchases were available. We did get an image on the AMMA from Phillip Daigle saying soon.
That was a week ago. I understand soon as before the 18th september.
As for a Tweet from @Trentoster of the 24th August he said screenshots were weeks away. That was nearly three weeks ago and we are now only 11 days from release, I hope I am wrong but I really doubt we will see any before release.
He also mentions on Beamdogs´ forum the following:
http://www.beamdog.com/forum/forums/general-discussion/topics/screenshots
21 days ago
Screenshots are a little away yet. We still have some real doozer graphical glitches to fix before we can take shots and then get them approved
-Trent
So unless they still have problems (which I hope not) I do not understand why we cannot have a sneak peek of what we are getting.
Edit: Corrections
Beamdog is a small team, and I'd rather see them focus on releasing a BGEE they're proud of on 9/18, than get bogged down in screenshots and discussions and approvals, oh my.
Can't say I'm surprised they didn't want to share it.