The Wonders of Sneak Attack

BelgarathMTH

Hi, friends.

So, I've not been advocating for the 3rd edition sneak attack feature, because I'd never really given it a chance before yesterday and today.

I found that even with a heavy points investment in move silently and hide in shadows, my thief was having a lot of trouble going into stealth mode and setting up backstabs, and even if she succeeded in gaining stealth mode, she could try one time for a backstab. After that, forget trying to get back into stealth mode for another attempt. (Yes, I know about invisibility potions and spells, but I want a pure class thief who plays like a thief, on her own skill, with no magic.)

So, when I got to the cold wight army on the third level of Dragon's Eye, she was almost out of magic artillery for her trusty shortbow, but she had the really spiffy +1 dagger with the +5 to thac0, which seemed made for sneak attacks. So, I decided to try to learn how to use it.

Good grief, it's good. My paladin and cleric can establish aggro, and the enemies start to ignore my singing skald and my thief.

Then, my thief just blithely walks around behind all the enemies and sneak attacks them one by one. With the +5 to thac0 dagger and my bard song, she almost never misses, and she often single-handedly chunks enemies that my pally and cleric haven't even gotten to.

Her kill percentage in the 4-member party (and really only three members compete for kills, since my skald spends most of the time casting magical song) skyrocketed from about 15 percent to 30 percent, just in the 3rd level of Dragon's Eye alone.

I can confirm that sneak attack can be done until you hit your target. If you miss on the first attempt(s), it will still be a sneak attack the first time you hit.

This is so awesome to me - it's like my thief can do her special thing over and over, with no need to worry about going into stealth or invisibility.

One thing I haven't been able to confirm is that a sneak attack can be done with a shortbow. Has anyone successfully executed a ranged sneak attack?

elminster

Now just imagine an assassin doing it

(Though in reality from a damage standpoint it would probably only be marginally better given your level)

Ohh and no you can't sneak attack with a shortbow.

Wowo

Yep I love my sneak attacking Assassin. I have that katana darkened glory on him and it hits for critical stage on 18-20 with single weapon style and I just found the ring of strength for him; chunk chunk chunk!

JuliusBorisov

Everyone playing IWDEE should try to turn Sneak attacks on at least once.

FinneousPJ

I had a FMT and turning on sneak attack made her even more awesome.

LazarusNine

That sounds rather amazing. I have a rather basic noob question - apologies for that. In order to initiate a sneak attack, do I have to click a specific button/ability? Or if I'm hiding in shadows and behind the enemy, will a normal attack command initiate a sneak attack? Thanks in advance.

Shikao

No special button. Don't even have to hide in shadows. For Sneak Attack all you need to do is position yourself behind or at flank of enemy

skaterfezz

Can you still backstab with sneak attack enabled?

Shikao

skaterfezz said:

Can you still backstab with sneak attack enabled?

No, it's either 2E Backstab or 3E Sneak Attack/Crippling Strike

skaterfezz

Thanks

TheArtisan

Sneak attack's pretty broken with the game's terrible AI targeting. My Fighter/Thief has the highest kill count in my party by far just because almost nothing in the game thinks to turn around to target the leather armored thief stabbing them in the back instead of my -12 AC cavalier.

If it were SCS AI I'd probably prefer backstab.

ameliaboggins

I didnt find the progressioninfo on sneakattk.....

is it +1d6 per 3 lvls or similar?

I have a fighter/mage/thief and i thinkt he thief is 12 atmo= +4d6
(nm) found answer!)


I can never recall the correct way to do a backstab. So SA is a useful tool

normally i just use thieves for traps and range attack. However with 5 APR its shame to keep him out of melee! 3 stars in shortsword thus far

(assume turning this toon into an assasin kit, has no effect on sneak attk? but would increase backstab.....if i can be bothered to use it)

Wowo

ameliaboggins said:

I didnt find the progressioninfo on sneakattk.....

is it +1d6 per 3 lvls or similar?

I have a fighter/mage/thief and i thinkt he thief is 12 atmo= +3d6

will it go to 4d6 at 13?

I can never recall the correct way to do a backstab. So SA is a useful tool

normally i just use thieves for traps and range attack. However with 5 APR its shame to keep him out of melee! 3 stars in shortsword thus far

(assume turning this toon into an assasin kit, has no effect on sneak attk? but would increase backstab.....if i can be bothered to use it)

Assassin has a faster SA progression which is nice as the kit normally doesn't get to benefit from a superior stabbing ability until high level.

ameliaboggins

`Assassin has a faster SA progression `

is there a table for this somewhere?

` the kit normally doesn't get to benefit from a superior stabbing ability until high level.`

am muddled as to your meaning here. do you mean cos of thaco? the assasin cant really land hits till higher lvl?

elminster

ameliaboggins said:

`Assassin has a faster SA progression `

is there a table for this somewhere?

` the kit normally doesn't get to benefit from a superior stabbing ability until high level.`

am muddled as to your meaning here. do you mean cos of thaco? the assasin cant really land hits till higher lvl?

The assassin gets faster sneak attack progression. You can read about it in the assassin section of the manual

http://www.beamdog.com/files/iwdee/iwdee_manual2.pdf

and compare it to what the normal thief gets.

Assassins get up to 6x and 7x damage with their backstab (normal thieves only get up to 5x). But they progress from 2x to 5x at the same rate as a thief. Meaning that they don't benefit compared to a normal thief as far as backstabs go (besides their minor thac0 and damage bonus) until level 17.

Wowo

The sneak attack progression is actually specified when you click on the kit when generating a character.

ameliaboggins

can i clarify something?

to get successful backstab i have to have 4things:

1. piercing weapon (keeping this simple)
2. be behind a target
3. be in shadows or invis
4. clickon the thief skills icon, to make the backstab
(also have sneak attack off)

beingbehind the mob and pressing the weapon icon isnt enough?

i find it confusing that you seem to drop out of shadows as soon as you click the dagger/mouse on the mob.

is no 4 optional? eg just clcik the weapon icon and attack as normal (with a short sword) the important bits being 1-3.

would be great to be able to toggle fast between backstab abd sneak attk.....only doablein game options tho right?



http://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/29ynsz/backstabbing_with_twinkle/

`Katanas, scimitars/wakizashi/ninjato, and clubs are also valid for backstabbing.`


/boggle

thats very confusing! katana is flagged as a slashing weapon.....

makes more sense to backstab with halberds and spears (piercing)

so am assuming this is false info?

Wowo

Backstab and sneak attack requires an appropriate weapon which is classified as any melee weapon a thief can normally use (pure class thief). This includes staves, clubs, katanas etc.

To backstab you hide or invis and attack the back of the enemy.

To sneak attack you attack the back of the enemy.

Kanaric

sneak attack is shitty IMO. I thought it would function like real 3E sneak attack. However it doesn't. Can only sneak attack with rogue weapons, must be behind character, can't sneak attack with ranged weapons, etc. Bad. Rather than th 5x damage with staffs and ridiculous shit like that.

Improved invisibility = destruction.

elminster

Kanaric said:

sneak attack is shitty IMO. I thought it would function like real 3E sneak attack. However it doesn't. Can only sneak attack with rogue weapons, must be behind character, can't sneak attack with ranged weapons, etc. Bad. Rather than th 5x damage with staffs and ridiculous shit like that.

Improved invisibility = destruction.

Its not like you start with a 5x backstab multiplier. Sneak Attack is actually really effective if used properly.

tormentor

hmmmm... It takes away the challenge in my opinion.

Wowo

tormentor said:

hmmmm... It takes away the challenge in my opinion.

Which challenge?

smeagolheart

there's still plenty of things immune to crits and sneaks.

OlvynChuru

smeagolheart said:

there's still plenty of things immune to crits and sneaks.

Like what? Undead in IWD actually aren't immune from what I know.

Fardragon

OlvynChuru said:

smeagolheart said:

there's still plenty of things immune to crits and sneaks.

Like what? Undead in IWD actually aren't immune from what I know.

They are, I've tested it*. So are golems.


*I haven't actually attempted to backstab EVERY undead in the game, so I guess there could be a couple of buggy ones.

smeagolheart

the same undead that are immune to backstab are immune to sneak. So things like zombies or whatever are still sneakable.

BelgarathMTH

I can confirm that bone golems are immune.

elminster

BelgarathMTH said:

I can confirm that bone golems are immune.

All golems are immune to backstab though.

lroumen

Two negatives makes a positive. Bone golems should be susceptible to backstab... Very inconsistent.

ameliaboggins

`Bone golems should be susceptible to backstab... Very inconsistent.`

they dont have any vital organs to target.

elminster

lroumen said:

Two negatives makes a positive. Bone golems should be susceptible to backstab... Very inconsistent.

Bone golems aren't undead. They are golems made from bones (in some cases the bones of previous animated skeletal undead).