Kensai Problems

Dekeon

I'm in dragon eye and he has only 2 AC. I have the wolf necklace and boots..and hes getting HAMMERED big time...using spells and resting SO much im not used to this...am i doing something wrong? I'm 4 manning this adventure,,,Cleric, Wiz,Kensai, Ranger.

OlvynChuru

Dekeon said:

I'm in dragon eye and he has only 2 AC. I have the wolf necklace and boots..and hes getting HAMMERED big time...using spells and resting SO much im not used to this...am i doing something wrong? I'm 4 manning this adventure,,,Cleric, Wiz,Kensai, Ranger.

The Kensai is SUPPOSED to get hammered big time! That's its drawback in exchange for it having all the hit/damage bonuses. It's actually a really fun kit if you use it right.

jackjack

I know you're running a 4-person party, but that group could really use a Dwarven Defender or Paladin to tank for them.

FinneousPJ

Depending on build you wanna have the cleric or ranger tank for the kensai. The kensai is a damage dealing "off-tank" as a pure class rather than a tank. If you're dualing to mage, he can be your main tank.

Lord_Tansheron

Wowo said:

Kensei

Just to be a nitpicking bastard, but it's Kensai, not Kensei

剣聖 (Kensei) means "sword saint/sage/master"
剣才 (Kensai) means "sword genius/prodigy"

It's a subtle difference in English, but it's more pronounced in Japanese.

*cough* Yeah, I don't get out much.

Anyway, as for the OP: do not facetank with your Kensai. A Kensai's whole concept revolves around dealing massive amounts of damage, at the cost of defensive abilities. If you try and take hits, you'll be in trouble. IWD in particular is a game very well suited to tanking, I would really recommend you have someone who can do it well. In your particular party, you can try to do it with the Cleric, who can wear heavy armor and a shield, and has lots of defensive self-buffs. They should do a better job at it than the Kensai.

atcDave

The Kensai is a Mitsubishi Zero. Great offensive weapon, terrible on defense.

I like to have well armored warrior with boots of speed in front. That way they get in to the fight first and draw all the fire. Then the Kensai comes in and lays down the hurt.

GamingFreak

Kensai have troubles in this game without a druid in your team. The reason for this is that a druid can cast barkskin on your kensai, to lower the Kensai's AC and help them survive up front. Other than that, either get ready to gulp a lot of potions or hope for the best. I wish I knew about Clerics losing out on Barkskin in this game before rolling a Kensai in my first team, let me tell you

Wowo

GamingFreak said:

Kensai have troubles in this game without a druid in your team. The reason for this is that a druid can cast barkskin on your kensai, to lower the Kensai's AC and help them survive up front. Other than that, either get ready to gulp a lot of potions or hope for the best. I wish I knew about Clerics losing out on Barkskin in this game before rolling a Kensai in my first team, let me tell you

Ghost Armor scroll is available as a random drop in Chapter 2. Spirit Armor is around somewhere too.

kensai

I have no problems!
Buy potions of defence, get cards of blur in dragons eye, apply kensai carefully and only then enemy is focused on your tank.
I play kensai on hof, it is doable.

Fardragon

A couple of points:

The ranger can cast Barkskin at level 6. Or they can cast Armour of Faith on themselves to help them tank.

Does the OP realise mobs attack the first character they see, so whoever charges in first will get smacked - which is likely to be the guy who can't use ranged weapons if you aren't careful.

How experienced is the OP? A four man sub-optimal party is a good way to rachet up the difficulty for experienced players, but I wouldn't recomend it for beginners.

It's worth mentioning that as they level up the Wizard will be able to use summons to tank - in fact, the Kensai is the character least able to tank in that party.

Zyzzogeton

It's worth mentioning that as they level up the Wizard will be able to use summons to tank - in fact, the Kensai is the character least able to tank in that party.

A Cleric already should have Animate Dead by that point.

ifupauline

did you use the single handed weapon ability? to reduce your AC it might help a little, i think for tough fight you might want to buff him as much as you can with potion and cleric spell

GamingFreak

Wowo said:

GamingFreak said:

Kensai have troubles in this game without a druid in your team. The reason for this is that a druid can cast barkskin on your kensai, to lower the Kensai's AC and help them survive up front. Other than that, either get ready to gulp a lot of potions or hope for the best. I wish I knew about Clerics losing out on Barkskin in this game before rolling a Kensai in my first team, let me tell you

Ghost Armor scroll is available as a random drop in Chapter 2. Spirit Armor is around somewhere too.

True, but if you bring a sorcerer like I did and no mage, that means you'd either have to waste an available spell to serve for protecting the kensai, or use up the scroll and it's gone for good after one use. Also barkskin becomes available much earlier than either of those spells; can't recommend it enough.

Somnam

I think most important points have already been mentioned. I once did a run with only half-orcs and the kensai shined in getting in when the fight was already going on to take out dangerous archers/spellcasters that where aggroing another tank.
Kai+haste+5 points (grandmastery) in weapon style is pretty brutal.
When he would get aggro I immediately pulled him out.

Petrol

To help the kensai i took a skald, the -2AC is a must at the beginning, the -2AC from the 1h weapon spec too.
Weapon proficiencie : longsword

I took the 2 weapon spec at level 12, there's longsword with +1 AC.

So i managed to give him : -6AC (-7 with 1h weapon spec)
The skald at level 14 gives -4AC.

So : -6 + -4 = -10 AC

So the kensai can tank, and is the biggest killer of the game.

Wowo

Petrol said:

To help the kensai i took a skald, the -2AC is a must at the beginning, the -2AC from the 1h weapon spec too.
Weapon proficiencie : longsword

I took the 2 weapon spec at level 12, there's longsword with +1 AC.

So i managed to give him : -6AC (-7 with 1h weapon spec)
The skald at level 14 gives -4AC.

So : -6 + -4 = -10 AC

So the kensai can tank, and is the biggest killer of the game.

Kensai still can't tank as no helmet makes him vulnerable to criticals.

On the other hand, if you dual class a kensai to Druid or Mage you can get skins which absorb attacks which are a fine replacement for helmets.

Fardragon

Wowo said:

Kensai still can't tank as no helmet makes him vulnerable to criticals.

I believe any headgear, including Ioun Stones, protects from critical hits. It's just not reflected in the item description.

kensai

Fardragon said:

I believe any headgear, including Ioun Stones, protects from critical hits. It's just not reflected in the item description.

No.

JuliusBorisov

kensai said:

Fardragon said:

I believe any headgear, including Ioun Stones, protects from critical hits. It's just not reflected in the item description.

No.

Indeed, in the latest engine version, no. I remember that was a thing in my BGT install but in IWDEE a Ioun Stone indeed doesn't protect agains critical hits.

Proteus

Lord_Tansheron said:

Wowo said:

Kensei

Just to be a nitpicking bastard, but it's Kensai, not Kensei

剣聖 (Kensei) means "sword saint/sage/master"
剣才 (Kensai) means "sword genius/prodigy"

It's a subtle difference in English, but it's more pronounced in Japanese.

Straight from original BG2 manual:

KENSAI (Fighter Kit)
This class is also known as the “Sword Saint”, and consists of a warrior who has been specially trained to be one with his sword. They are deadly, fast and trained to fight without encumbrance.

So I'm guessing the creators actually meant to design a Kensei, but mispelled it.

Anyway, regarding the original topic, dual him to mage. It's the right thing to do.

Djimmy

Just use your summons for tanking. In HoF summons are your best option. Just haste them and send them forward then join the fight when you are not targeted. It's what I currently do with my kensai/mage solo run. I have tried it with fighter/cleric(very strong) solo too. With party of six is even easier. Summons always work in HoF(and not only).

Bottom line: Kensai is not a tank and in HoF no one is as good in tanking as summons. Your kensai is perfectly fine.

Wowo

Djimmy said:

Just use your summons for tanking. In HoF summons are your best option. Just haste them and send them forward then join the fight when you are not targeted. It's what I currently do with my kensai/mage solo run. I have tried it with fighter/cleric(very strong) solo too. With party of six is even easier. Summons always work in HoF(and not only).

Bottom line: Kensai is not a tank and in HoF no one is as good in tanking as summons. Your kensai is perfectly fine.

This isn't true. After a certain point all summons do is slow down how fast your damage dealers can get to the enemy.

This starts as soon as you have a damage dealer with skins and good AC - kensei 9/11 Druid (for entropic shield) or as soon as you find stone skin scroll for kensage.

Djimmy

Wowo said:

Djimmy said:

Just use your summons for tanking. In HoF summons are your best option. Just haste them and send them forward then join the fight when you are not targeted. It's what I currently do with my kensai/mage solo run. I have tried it with fighter/cleric(very strong) solo too. With party of six is even easier. Summons always work in HoF(and not only).

Bottom line: Kensai is not a tank and in HoF no one is as good in tanking as summons. Your kensai is perfectly fine.

This isn't true. After a certain point all summons do is slow down how fast your damage dealers can get to the enemy.

This starts as soon as you have a damage dealer with skins and good AC - kensei 9/11 Druid (for entropic shield) or as soon as you find stone skin scroll for kensage.

Yes, but we are talking about pure kensai, so no stone skins or entropic shield. And also stone skins are not as viable as summons distracting the enemies(especially for big crowds of enemies). You can easily get overrun specifically in HoF. I just gave an example with kensage as a side note(Stoneskin and/or PfMW can easily make you a tank indeed).

Fardragon

I would say the main advantage of a kensai (mage or druid dual classes aside) is their class bonuses are uncapped, so their DPS keeps on improving after level 13.

GamingFreak

Kensai are quite literally this game's glass cannon. They hit harder than anything else, but without item or spell support from an outside source, they get hit harder than anything else, since they're stuck on the front-lines. Because they're a glass cannon, there job isn't to tank. That's the job for a guy in big armor or with defensive abilities that can suit the tanking need.

A Dwarven Defender is a tank; a Berserker is a tank; a Paladin can serve as a tank. Kensai are not made for tanking. Even with a high AC, it doesn't factor in the extra resistances armor provides, and Kensai can't get that without potions, equipment, or some spell-caster.

kensai

Kensai is not a tank, a drarwen defender is a tank. A F\M with buffs is a tank.
Kensai is not a glass canon, wizard and sorcerer are glass cannons.
Kensai is a powerful dps machine that needs smart micro management, but defenitely not fragile.
A tank that walks out of every encounter with full HP simply means that current game is inbalanced by some reasons and hence boring.

Heindrich

@Wowo‌ and @Zyzzogeton‌
Ok guys, this is getting a bit circular and basically amounts to pedantic technicalities on how you define a tank. Nobody is saying a Kensai is a good tank, and nobody is saying he is useless...

So let's spare poor OP from a wall of notifications from this argument.

Oh yeah, and my own observation on low level combat for Kensai is that:
1) They aren't as squishy as I expected. I do have to micromanage positioning more so than for an armoured warrior, but not in every engagement.
2) They are really vulnerable to missile fire. I've learnt quickly to always have a shielded character draw the fire first.
3) The biggest problem (in my experience) is not AC, but rather the lack of helmets. This means even weak enemies can suddenly cripple your Kensai with a critical hit. This badly reduces a Kensai's reliability as a traditional tank.

JuliusBorisov

Due to the fact @Heindrich‌ has mentioned, I've decided to split the comments and to create a separate thread: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/37923/can-a-kensai-be-a-tank/p1 so that the OP here wouldn't be distracted by dozens of posts on that subject.

I welcome everyone to participate in that thread instead of derailing this discussion into kensaiCANtank VS kensaiNOTtank : )

foolstone

I use sorcerer as tank then send kensai to join the battle. Now i dual my kensai a mage, I think after the kensai reactivate again, he will be ok.

Archaos

And that's why parties of four are not a good idea.

A Kensai and a Dwarven Defender would work miracles together.