Curious question about Cleric/Thieves

GamingFreak

As much as I love this unique multi-class, there's something I never tried or had the chance to experiment with, and even then I'm not sure if it would work in IWD:EE or not; basically I know that Clerics have the Find Traps spell, and because of the thieving levels, they can disarm them too.

The real question is what skill determines whether or not they can successfully disarm a trap: Pick Locks or Find Traps?

Jarrakul

Find Traps.

GamingFreak

I see; very good then. That means Cleric/Thieves can't use the Detect Traps spell in place of the skill, which is good, though less cheese allowed.

Wowo

I think it's hard to really find where this multi class would fit into most parties.

Most people that encourage this combination seem to think that it's worthwhile to combine two necessary but underwhelming class into a "utility" character that does all the norbing jobs while being generally useless.

In contrast, I like and respect both the thief and the cleric class I don't think that there's either anything necessary or underwhelming about either class.

Sure, thief has some shortfalls but you make those even worse if you restrict their weapon selection to the cleric list.

Sure, cleric has some shortfalls but you make those worse too if you combine the class with thief.

Thief and cleric can and will shine if combined in almost any other combination, they just don't go together too well.

That said, I love Tiax and in the context of BG1 the class combination is incredibly potent especially as Tiax has the perfect weapon proficiency setup to maximise the effectiveness of the Staff of Striking.

Finally, I soloed BG1 and about of half of BG2 with a Swashbuckler 26/Cleric 27. Pretty fun build with UAI and all the rest of the gravy.

GamingFreak

Cleric/Thieves are awesome because with enough cleric levels you can utilize buffs to make him a back-stabber on par with a kensai/thief proficient in quarterstaves (minus the passive buffs kensai have every 3 levels), the only difference being fighter/thieves get extra attacks and Cleric/Thieves do not.

A cleric-buffed backstab is no joke, either. Even with 1 APR, the cleric buffs stacked into one quarterstaff backstab is gonna *hurt*.

Besides all of that, the utility they provide is pretty solid as back-line supporters or off-hand damage dealers in melee.

I personally love cleric/thief multis; especially when playing a half-orc for extra amusement.

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JuliusBorisov

Wowo said:

I think it's hard to really find where this multi class would fit into most powergamey parties.

Fixed that

Not everyone powergames. A cleric/thief can very much cover both roles if other characters in the party are of different classes. She can hold her own as a solo character as well. Just lure enemies with your skeleton warriors right to your traps. Holy Power + DUHM + backstab. Hide in Shadows + Blade Barrier. There can be lots of interesting tactics. A diverse and unusual playthrough is guaranteed.

Tidus

I have a cleric/thief in my current playthrough...
I eekeeped her to elf race since I wanted to role-play a cleric of Sehanine with a roguish streak, modded in UAI and proficiency with short bows for the same reason while removing necromancy spells from her list.
So far - as she is just level 2/3 - it's been challenging finding her an efficient combat role but I expect to abuse sanctuary/sneak attack, especially since no necromancy means no Animate Dead, and use her as primary buffer (no bard in this party).

PS: I do hate that the thieving command is stuffed into the special ability button in this multiclass

Wowo

bengoshi said:

Wowo said:

I think it's hard to really find where this multi class would fit into most powergamey parties.

Fixed that

Not everyone powergames. A cleric/thief can very much cover both roles if other characters in the party are of different classes. She can hold her own as a solo character as well. Just lure enemies with your skeleton warriors right to your traps. Holy Power + DUHM + backstab. Hide in Shadows + Blade Barrier. There can be lots of interesting tactics. A diverse and unusual playthrough is guaranteed.

No you didn't. I didn't mean power games parties, I meant parties in general. Thieves are meant to go stab stab stab and, whichever side of the fence you're on, the classes that help you do that are the warrior or wizard types.

Power gamer or not it's hard to find a character concept that fits with the cleric/thief multi unless you use eekeeper.

For power gaming I can be more specific. APR sucks and you exclude yourself from the best weapons of each class by going multi (can't backstab with cleric weapons, can't use rogue weapons). Especially in IWD where there is no UAI and no staff of striking or the ram.

I want to like it, I really do. I worked pretty hard to realise the awesome swashbuckler 26/cleric 27 build which just rocks and conceptually is really fun.

Zyzzogeton

No you didn't. I didn't mean power games parties, I meant parties in general. Thieves are meant to go stab stab stab and, whichever side of the fence you're on, the classes that help you do that are the warrior or wizard types.

DUHM, Righteous Magic, Backstab still works with Quarterstaves.

Fardragon

Wowo said:

Power gamer or not it's hard to find a character concept that fits with the cleric/thief multi unless you use eekeeper.

There are a whole bunch of FR deities of thieves, assassins, trickery, luck and commerce.

Somnam

I think another good way to mix a cleric with a thief is to go dual.

Swashbuckler6---> Cleric (100 disarm traps/open locks)
Swashbuckler7---> Cleric (+ evasion)

Aside from being slightly on the powergaming side this would not prevent you from roleplaying the character. Of course it this specific build would not allow you the wonders of backstabbing.
If only the utility would be needed I thing this is the way to go, since you basically have a cleric that can open/disarm anything with addition double pips.

I am currently using this for my HOF run and I think it is really nice to have an extra cleric who is able to heal/buff/disable only.

Wowo

Somnam said:

I think another good way to mix a cleric with a thief is to go dual.

Swashbuckler6---> Cleric (100 disarm traps/open locks)
Swashbuckler7---> Cleric (+ evasion)

Aside from being slightly on the powergaming side this would not prevent you from roleplaying the character. Of course it this specific build would not allow you the wonders of backstabbing.
If only the utility would be needed I thing this is the way to go, since you basically have a cleric that can open/disarm anything with addition double pips.

I am currently using this for my HOF run and I think it is really nice to have an extra cleric who is able to heal/buff/disable only.

I wanted to like this build too but whichever way I looked at it I was going to be better off dualing to mage rather than to cleric. In HoF I'd recommend going to swash 10 for the extra damage and AC too.

OlvynChuru

I've already said this in other threads, but cleric/thieves are fun because they can backstab/sneak attack at range with Spiritual Hammer.

Here's my more general opinion of the class. Overall, it's a very weak class but it can do some really interesting things. If you want to use a cleric/thief, I suggest putting him/her in a party where the the rest of the party members aren't powerful enough to outshine the cleric/thief. That way, he/she will be more fun to use and won't feel so much like dead weight.