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Don't doubt the Bard

I just finished my first playthrough of BG:EE. I loved the idea of the Bard; shoot some arrows, cast some spells, inspire my party. The bard seemed to be the guy that everyone in the party would love... not because they are strictly awesome themselves, but because they make everyone else better.

That said, meet Rorik. A human Skald who won my heart over the course of his story.

He began to impress me at level 1, when he and Imoen were forced to fight an overly aggressive Dread Wolf that attacked the fledgling group. With careful song-twisting, Rorik bolstered the attack and defense of the group enough to defeat the savage beast.

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And from then on, he only grew in his awesomeness.

Here is Rorik, just before the fight with Sarevok:

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I song-twisted in nearly every fight, getting off 2 ranged attacks each round while maintaining the inspiring presence that granted my party -2 THAC0, Damage, and AC. Don't let anyone fool you -- the difference in your party with and without the singing Bard is MASSIVE. It really made a huge difference in most every fight.


Rorik had a THAC0 of 4 while singing (which was always), which is a very respectable number. His damage wasn't off the charts, but hitting mages with arrows of dispelling or just interrupting them consistently was huge. Not to mention his ability to throw Greater Malison, followed by a Slow or Chromatic Orb. He could use his spell slots to buff, to control the crowd, or do damage.

This wise-beyond-his years Skald was also an identification machine. With all the ID money the party saved, and because I never had to use consumables (due largely to song-twisting, which was a huge help), I ended the game with nearly 200,000 gold to spare.

Rorik didn't wear any armor, and yet managed to stay largely out of harm's way, being a spell-slinging archer at his core.

Overall, the Skald wasn't just a party member... he MADE the party. He was a jack-of-all-trades, but surprisingly not a "master of none". On the contrary, he was a master of all. I enjoyed him FAR more than I could have imagined, and he was a powerhouse in his own right.

I hope anyone on the fence about Bards comes to the right side of the fence, because Bards are amazing.
BelgarathMTHJLeejackjacklunarJuliusBorisovkcwiseFinneousPJdementedMerinaWilburCrevsDaak
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Comments

  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Bards are pretty sweet with the right stats in BG1. The problem that might turn people off them is the two bards you get in BG1 are... rather lacking. Eldoth is a master of none quite literally, and Garrick is considered by some to be the worst NPC in the game.
    ShikaokcwiseBlackraven
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    edited December 2014
    Bards can be pretty cool. I've had a lot of fun with my own Doomsinger kit. It focuses quite heavily on the singing, which affects enemies negatively instead of boosting your party, and downplays the physical attributes of the bard.
    JuliusBorisovkcwise
  • supposedlysupposedly Member Posts: 206
    I'm running a jester right now in bg2. The song isn't that effective at lower levels, but once you get to 15 it's totally OP.

    All the bards are OP anyway though, even vanilla
    DraekinjackjackJuliusBorisovkcwise
  • DraekinDraekin Member Posts: 40
    @BelgarathMTH‌ I find the micromanaging more fun. It adds a depth to the character play that makes me feel more accomplished for doing it well. However, I used to play Age of Empires II and III with a friend of mine (we were very highly ranked) and come by the love to micromanage naturally.

    @supposedly‌ I was thinking about my second run-through of BG:EE with a Jester as well. Can you give me some more details where they shine or are not so good? I was also considering a run-through with another class (deciding between Mage, Monk, Stalker, and Inquisitor). Whatever character I like most I will import into my newly downloaded BG2:EE. Any suggestions?

    I was thinking about doing my 2nd run with a class that was more blatantly powerful than the Bard... but I've never run through BG2, so I'm not sure how things pan out in the later levels with each class.
    JuliusBorisovkcwiseBelgarathMTH
  • supposedlysupposedly Member Posts: 206
    I did not play him through bg1 but I imagine its just as op with the extra arcane levels compared to a mage.

    I wasn't very impressed by the confusion effect in bg2, but once the slow component kicks in, its fantastic. Just invis and get near the fray. Obviously this tactic gets less powerful once mages start casting true sight. When stun kicks in, it's downright brutal. Drop a greater malison (or two) and have fun. In TOB the MR probably is problematic, but by then you can take improves song HLA.

    Use Any Item and pickpockets is lots of fun.

    Not to mention mislead and simulacrum mayhem with six bards singing. Equip dorns helm for added fun
    JuliusBorisovkcwiseDraekin
  • supposedlysupposedly Member Posts: 206
    The song bypasses MR but, mobs with high saves and Mr you can't land a malison on
    JuliusBorisovkcwiseDraekin
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Run a Jester. It's super effective in BGEE and awesome throughout BG2EE. Install the Rogue Rebalancing mod and watch him or her go.
    JuliusBorisovkcwisedementedBlackraven
  • DraekinDraekin Member Posts: 40
    edited December 2014
    I've decided that my next play-through (non-bard kit) is going to be either Elf Stalker or Elf Archer. I've seen the argument that the Archer is best through the whole saga because it does crazy damage, and by the time you fight resistant enemies in TOB, you can just melee for those few fights and you'll be good enough. And I've also heard that Stalker is better because it does more damage because of the "drop-off" in archery effectiveness in BG2, as well as it just being more fun with backstabbing and a few mage spells.

    Any thoughts on that stuff?

    I've already rolled up both characters with basically identical stat-lines, so it's just a matter of choice at this point.
    JuliusBorisovkcwise
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    I've always wanted to do a high level dual of Stalker to Cleric.
    jackjackkcwise
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    edited December 2014
    While elven stalkers still have a place in my heart, I found a new love for vanilla rangers, without worrying about power-gamey needs.

    As for bards, like I said, Bards are good for what their options are. Only reason I don't take one usually is because A) I'm not playing one, or B ) They don't fit into my party plan. And there's only like, 2 parties I would *want* a bard in, and others would be consideration only.
    kcwiseBelgarathMTHBlackraven
  • supposedlysupposedly Member Posts: 206
    I've never played a stalker before--what's the attraction compared to a fighter/thief?
    I did enjoy an archer though.
    kcwiseBlackraven
  • supposedlysupposedly Member Posts: 206
    Plus the leet Cerberus doll
    kcwiseFinneousPJCrevsDaak
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    If you're intersted in good arguments for stalkers, there're several discussions on this topic:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/19324/why-roll-a-stalker (just look at @lunar‌ 's and @SionIV‌ 's answers here)

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/16106/stalker-or-fighter-thief (the post by @RnRClown‌ can be useful in particular)

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/27998/stalkers-are-awesome (the OP : )

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/12896/ultimate-backstabber-showdown (just compare different views on the subject)

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/21488/how-do-i-stalker (very nice feedback)
    kcwiseDraekinlunarjackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Anywho getting back to the thread about bards...

    I had Garrick in my party during a recent BGEE playthrough. Wands are obviously a big help, especially Wands of Fire. The high lore was pretty nice to have too, though obviously money is never a problem by the end of the game.

    Awesome dialogue too, though

    "Tis a beautiful day in the neighbourhood"

    did kind of become a bit creepy sounding when it was said in Ulgoth's Beard

    When we were about to deal with the cult
    jackjackkcwiseJuliusBorisovBlackraven
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    jackjack said:

    Look at it this way. You're about to get in an epic fight and he quotes Mr. Rogers, who was a hardcore U.S. Marine in his youth :D

    I guess no one else knows who Mr. Rogers was...
    jackjackkcwiseJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    A fun old hoax, nonetheless :P
    NimrankcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • DraekinDraekin Member Posts: 40
    edited December 2014

    There's just too much of a negative connotation with bards.

    I think the problem is that the bard is seen as some sort of theatre kid gone rogue... which doesn't seem too imposing. If the special ability of the class had been "intimidation" or "inspiration" rather than "singing", I think that negative connotation never would have come about.

    As much as D&D fans or role-players like to believe that they are able to overcome silly labels and names and roleplay their character to their liking (e.g. instead of singing, my bard is going to be an inspiring leader whose charisma boosts the morale of the party, through the power of his magnetic presence)... it just doesn't happen that way. People hear the term "singing" and no matter how they try to roleplay it, singing just seems a little less-than-manly compared to a skill called "berserk".

    And in the hostile, monster-filled, barbarian axe-wielding, skull crushing setting of D&D, some of these labels can't be overcome.
    kcwiseBlackraven
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Draekin said:

    There's just too much of a negative connotation with bards.

    I think the problem is that the bard is seen as some sort of theatre kid gone rogue... which doesn't seem too imposing. If the special ability of the class had been "intimidation" or "inspiration" rather than "singing", I think that negative connotation never would have come about.

    As much as D&D fans or role-players like to believe that they are able to overcome silly labels and names and roleplay their character to their liking (e.g. instead of singing, my bard is going to be an inspiring leader whose charisma boosts the morale of the party, through the power of his magnetic presence)... it just doesn't happen that way. People hear the term "singing" and no matter how they try to roleplay it, singing just seems a little less-than-manly compared to a skill called "berserk".

    And in the hostile, monster-filled, barbarian axe-wielding, skull crushing setting of D&D, some of these labels can't be overcome.
    It's a tough world we play in.
    kcwiseDraekinBlackraven
  • BladesBlades Member Posts: 167
    jackjack said:

    Run a Jester. It's super effective in BGEE and awesome throughout BG2EE. Install the Rogue Rebalancing mod and watch him or her go.

    Casting a confusion/chaos effect repeatedly in BGEE is way OP'd in my book. Cool, but OP'd. I avoid that class in BGEE. It's more balanced in BGEE2.
    kcwise
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