Improved Shapeshifter

Timebomb

I wonder what people think of my improved Shapeshifter Druid idea.

I want to run the whole trilogy as a Druid in a small party of two or three, but I find the druid class and kits lacking.

I was thinking about modding the Shapeshifter kit so that it's more diverse and interesting and fun, without being overpowered at any point through the series, so I came up with this:

Since single class druids have a major issue with thac0, I was thinking about EE Keepering a Fighter/Shapeshifter Multiclass, with some self imposed restrictions, like only being able to place proficiency points into the weapon styles that improve shifted forms, and maybe a single point into staves and spears. The point is that the Fighter part of the class only supplements the druid forms and allows a decent thac0 progression.

Then, since I don't like small amounts of forms per day, and having to rest to regain them (I don't want to have to feel I have to conserve them) I was thinking about modding my shapeshifts with the Mage forms, so that when I gain them, I can use them at any time. Here's how I'd do it to maintain balance:

Level 2: Wolf
Level 4: Brown Bear
Level 6: Ogre
Level 8: Flind
Level 10: Spider
Level 12: Giant Troll
Level 14: Earth Elemental

What do you guys think about the balance of this? surely Fighter/Mages, Fighter/Thieves, Fighter(Ranger)/Clerics both dual and multi have the similar, if not more tricks up their sleeves, power wise?

semiticgoddess

I've actually created a kit for my own personal use--I've mentioned it before somewhere--that modifies the monk to make it into a unique shapeshifting kit. The forms are much more exotic: Ettercap, Troll, Kuo-toa, Umber Hulk, Shadow, Beholder, and Black Dragon. It works as intended, but I've only tested it for early game play balance. The kit has a lot of wicked powers, but there are a bunch of drawbacks. Most importantly, it can't benefit from ANY healing spells, and every shapeshift does damage based on the strength of the critter in question. Only potions and the Troll form can heal it.

The shapeshifts you mention seem perfectly balanced. Druids have poor base THAC0, so even in the later forms you mention, your druid wouldn't outpace fighters. It's stronger than an unkitted druid, unless you add in some weaknesses or drawbacks, but I would consider it quite balanced as is.

Timebomb

Interesting idea. How did you mod it? Seems way more complicated than what I'm proposing.

As for my higher level forms, do you think they will be able to keep up in TOB? I suppose I will get HLAs to help them along...

semiticgoddess

I used Near Infinity. To be more specific:

First, I selected a handful of forms and found the right creature file in DLTCEP, which I find is more user-friendly than NI, but which does not allow me to edit anything due to a bug. I created a duplicate file of each critter and edited it as I saw fit. I also made copies of each critter's weapon as listed in DLTCEP, and added some passive effects and on-hit effects to the weapons.

I then copied the Shapechange Mind Flayer spell several times, one for each of the forms I created. That spell has lots of effects, and it got complicated, but basically I had to rig it so that it switched the caster to the new forms I wanted and created the new items I wanted, but instead of giving an extra casting of Shapechange Mind Flayer, I set it to give an extra casting of the new spell (all of this is clearer if you look at the files in Near Infinity). So, MONKS22 turns the caster into a troll, gives the troll item with the regeneration effect and THAC0 damage on hit, and also gives the caster the innate ability MONKS22--the same spell. This allows the monk to shapeshift at will, since every time you cast the spell, you get it back. Also, for some of the shapeshifts, I added an innate spell (I copied the Psionic Blast you get from Shapechange Mind Flayer) and tweaked the effects. The actual process is more complicated and required lots of fixes, but it's not too hard.

From there, I edited the CLABMO01 .2da file, which codes for the monk's bonuses as it gains levels. The bonuses are spell files, so I replace some of the monk's normal bonuses with my own. For instance, MONKS21 is the Ettercap shapeshift, so at level 1, the CLABMO01 file has GA_MONKS21 listed. That means the monk can cast MONKS21 once per day. For passive effects, rather than innate abilities (a Kensai bonus to damage, as opposed to its Kai ability), you precede the spell name with "AP_" instead of "GA_".

The forms will not keep up in TOB. Add Greater Werewolf at level 17 or so, and maybe the form would be more worth using, but generally, a druid at epic levels is going to be better off casting spells than fighting. You would need to make some pretty drastic improvements to the class to make a Shapeshifter more effect when shapeshifted in TOB, since druids get such a huge boost in spellpower at epic levels (six level 7 spells once they hit 3 million XP).

Timebomb

Well, I tested it out and found that using the mage shifting at low levels was a little too overpowered, due to the innate haste on every form, and the added attack per round, making these forms better than any fighter at low levels. So I decided on just using druid forms, but giving myself 5 shifts per day with each form when acquired (1 shift is just dumb and just means more sleeping, and I want to cast spells without concern of shifting out):

1 Wolf (2 attacks per round, so not as much as a specialized dual wield fighter)
3 Brown Bear (3 APR, so better than a DW fighter, but less overall damage due to lack of specialization, low AC)
5 Werewolf (later than regular Shapeshifter)
7 Baby Wyvern (2 APR, immunities, poison, should be fine for this level)
9 Sword Spider (5 APR, hasted, immunities, poison, more attacks than a GM DW'er, but less/slower dmg)
11 Fire Salamander (2 APR, hasted, fire resistance, fire attack, hits as +3, so perfect for this level)
13 Greater Werewolf (same as regular Shapeshifter, but with 5 shifts a day, cause come on... 1 shift/day is dumb)
(HLAs) Elemental forms

Has anybody else tried anything similar? Should this make for a fun and balanced class?

semiticgod: I've never used NI/DLTCEP, would this be easy to create as a class/kit, so that I don't have to ee keeper these abilities in every 2 levels?

semiticgoddess

@Timebomb: Yes, you just need to edit the CLABDR01 file (if you're modifying the unkitted druid; CLABDR02-4 code for the kits) and add each casting of the relevant shapeshift with the prefix GA_. To get five shapeshifts per day, you need to put that GA_XXXXXXXX file underneath the right level five times. You can only add six spell files for each level, however, so you won't be able to add much more.

I would buff the HLA forms if I were you. With 1 attack per round and almost no special resistances besides fire resistance (which you already can get from the Fire Salamander form), they're really underpowered, since you need 3 million XP to reach them.

You might consider installing the Improved Shapeshifting mod from Sword Coast Strategems II, which uses a much simpler system, and copy and edit the items as you see fit. Since they shapeshift using custom items only druids can use, this allows unlimited shapeshifting per day and does not cause irritating delays when switching between spellcasting and shapeshifting, and Dispel Magic will not remove the items as it normally does.

I think the edits you propose are pretty balanced. It would not be game-breaking, though it could approach that area if you use token-based shapeshifting like the component of SCSII and buffed the forms a little.

Tomarctus

You could check out Scales of balance (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/33657/scales-of-balance-post-hac-kits-and-tweaks/p1) from subtledocter and Saradas' shapeshifter.(http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/28623/mod-eng-bg1-ee-soa-tob-saradas-revisioned-shapeshifter-v-1-1#latest)

They both have modded druids to change the shapeshifting quite a bit.

Wowo

5 shifts/day of the Druid forms gives you basically unlimited self healing.

Shapeshifting in IWD is much better than in BG, maybe do a run through IWD as an Avenger? It's pretty awesome.

semiticgoddess

Does IWD:EE retain the high-level shapeshifts that the original IWD has? I'm referring to the Water Elemental form, which I used a lot in my old HoF runs because of its 75% physical damage resistance (easily boosted to 100% with bard songs and maybe the Great Shield +3, a trick I'm quite proud of finding). Or is IWD:EE very much a duplicate of BG2's system?

Wowo

semiticgod said:

Does IWD:EE retain the high-level shapeshifts that the original IWD has? I'm referring to the Water Elemental form, which I used a lot in my old HoF runs because of its 75% physical damage resistance (easily boosted to 100% with bard songs and maybe the Great Shield +3, a trick I'm quite proud of finding). Or is IWD:EE very much a duplicate of BG2's system?

All of the stuff that made Druids cool in the original is either the same or improved in IWDee.

Water Elemental Form + Armour of Faith is a really simple win condition for almost any fight where you can get fire focused on that big wet guy.

semiticgoddess

So they put Armor of Faith in. Now the druid can become immune to damage on its own. Without items. And unless IWD:EE improves the AI a lot, that should really make a druid into an invulnerable tank, at least for 1 round per level, since enemies in IWD tend to just attack what's in front of them.

I think I will get IWD:EE at some point. There's so much I want to know about the new system.

Timebomb

Well, My first foray into Near Infinity was a success. Now I'm officially a modder, lol.

I went back to my original mage shifting forms, but stripped the haste from the lower forms, and buffed the elemental, all with the mage casting of the forms, so no healing, and unlimited shifts per day. Should make for a good run!

My next project will be to convert all shapeshift forms (druid and mage) into the mage style of shifting, so that I can have a large pool of forms to choose from.

Thanks for the help.