Tactical is using the abilities you have NOW to their best effect.
Strategy is ensuring that you have a good spread of options so that when forced into battle you can pick an appropriate tactic for victory based on the unique circumstances of an encounter.
yeah, most spell-casters are very strategic due to memorization or needing to pick a solid list of spells forcing them to pick their spells based on what they could need, where the tactical portion comes from figuring out how best to apply those spells, where as non-casters are less so since their only options are holding on to gear that might be useful in specific circumstances.
Strategy can also come into play if using rest restrictions, since you're having to constantly think of whether you should use an ability because it just speeds things up or use it because you need it, since you might REALLY need it later.
Now those explanations are the types of things I used to think about Strategy and Tactics. Now I see it more as you have an overall strategy to achieve a goal, but the tactics get it done. In that. BG and the Infinity games are strategic applications of groups and parties. Dark Souls is more about the individual tactics you use to defeat each boss. Both games have BOTH Strategy and Tactics, but BG just feels more strategic in my view and Dark Souls more tactical.
@Djimmy with a kensai/mage you beat him in HoF?! How the hell did you managed that? I have a kensai/mage and it's been a pain in the ass! mostly because of the golems and the traps but still...I am going insane trying to beat him in HoF but i only tried 3/4 times! Still thinking of how to do it! those traps are a pain in the ass in HoF!
@Jota Stay close to the walls and you will be fine. Also there are items that help you reveal traps, or just use Time Stop. Easy peasy.
@Djimmy already beat the guy! But I escaped the dispel spell so I had all my buffs (felt like cheating)! And where can I find the time stop scroll?! I am playing Heart of Winter now and that spell would certaintly help me!
a. The art of a commander-in-chief; the art of projecting and directing the larger military movements and operations of a campaign. Usually distinguished from tactics, which is the art of handling forces in battle or in the immediate presence of the enemy.
1810 C. James New Mil. Dict. (ed. 3) (at cited word), Strategy differs materially from tactic; the latter belonging only to the mechanical movement of bodies, set in motion by the former. 1825 J. A. Gilbert Expos. Princ. Mil. Combinations 11 The second combination is the art of bringing the mass of one's forces as rapidly as possible on the decisive point of the primitive line of operation, or of the accidental line. It is what is vulgarly called strategy, but strategy relates only to the mode of executing this second combination. 1827 Scott Life Napoleon II. iii. 73 A brave and excellent soldier, but who had no idea of strategie [sic] or tactics, save those current during the Seven Years War. 1889 A. T. Mahan Influence Sea Power Introd. 8 Before hostile armies or fleets are brought into contact (a word which perhaps better than any other indicates the dividing line between tactics and strategy).
@Djimmy my first run I did the same! But in this re run I wanted the singing blade of Aihonen! and I wanted a more difficult battle with "Brother Poquelin"
@subtledoctor Maybe you'd like a book on military science, but that's not what dictionary definitions are supposed to be. The distinction in definition is clear enough: 1. Strategy is the art of projecting and directing the larger military movements and operations of a campaign. 2. Tactics is the art or science of deploying military or naval forces in order of battle, and of performing warlike evolutions and manœuvres.
@AndrewFoley - thank you very much for pointing that out. I now have a reason to complete the game. yet another kudos to the team for providing the EE versions!!
Here is a way to kill him easily even in Insane mode with a non power build team :
You will be dispeled when you reach Belifeth, so dont waste time buffing your team
When you reach him be sure that : -each of your party member has a potion of regenration and 3 antidotes - you have at least 3 good fighters with +3 or +4 bludgeoning weapons to smash the golems ( Coulon hammer should help a lot here) - your magic users have these spells : - hastex2 - lower resistance x6 - dismissal x3 and some good summon spells - the tanks have items or potions who protect from fire - priest have high level healing spells, protection from evil 10' ,zone of sweat air x4 and some team buff - all your good fighters have at least +4 weapons, don't care about the extra effect of weapons, just get the weapons with the best + bonus , or who are described as counting as +5 against extra planar enemies
enter the arena, your thief should detec trap, then all the party run on the edge of the screen. Everybody drink a potion of regeneration, mage cast haste, cleric casts buff spells, ignore Belifeth. Never return in the middle of the roon, it is full of unremovable traps.
During the fight make sure that your fighters are using potions who boost them : storm giant strength, heroism etc.. With haste you will be able to avoid Belifeth
Focus first on golems, use the best bludgeoning weapons you have
Then cast lower resistance on the fiends, then dismissal on them or use a disruption weapon on the fiends. Clerics cast zone of sweat air to remove the poison clouds of the golems
Belifeth has high resitance to magic and good saves, and you can't hurt him with weapons lower than +3 or +4 , can't be sure ,and it may depends on the difficulty level.
Now cast lower resistance on Belifeth and attack him with the weapons who have the highest + bonus , +4 or +5 You win !
I kind of wonder what some of you folks think of Dark Souls? Talk about tough boss battles...
Meh....
for the most part, Well besides ornstein and smough on my first playthrough. They rekt me so hard so many times, now when I fight them I take my time and decide who to kill first, which is always pretty much always smough because ornsteins armour is so sweet and playing fashion souls is more fun than playing power gaming souls.
anyways if you play like a proper PvE player and learn their attack patterns, they are all pretty easy to beat, you just have to get into that block, rechange stamina, attack, dodge roll rhythm. Use some dirty magic if you feel the need, or poison, dark souls 2 poison works quite well on some bosses, about 1100 dmg over 30 seconds. Toxic if in dark souls one. Also level your gear!!!!! Thats what a new player should do, if you have been playing for a while join a covenant and do some PvP, you will become so much better so fast and learn important things like fast builds are awesome, 105 agility is minimum you should have on any build, havel monsters die like the rest, nobody uses a tower shield (this is a lie,lots of people do. I just cant phathom why), dodging is better than blocking, cosplay is cool, poison is so not cheese XD and all that other good stuff.
One more thing im more scared of making any platformy jump, than fighting any of the bosses in either of the souls games. Lava jumps in the iron keep are way worse than fighting 2 purifiers.
@subtledoctor@FinneousPJ the easiest way to divide tactics from strategy is that stratgey is the planning and preparations before or after a battle, and usually is dominated by keeping your supply and communication lines secure, while making those of your enemy insecure. Campaign strategies usually have nothing to do with battle whstsoever. Most advanced military theory is about using strategy to get a progressively better upperhand without actually risking troops in pitched battle (ie a tactical situation). Sun Tzu was big on this, and modern western military theory favours this. Relying on tactics can get a lot of people killed.
Tactics can only be used in battle. Strategy refers to everything done outside actual battle. The closest you can come to blurring this distinction is a strategy of non-engagement, which usually means guerrilla tactics... but even then, non-engagement can also just mean complete avoidance. As in, no ambushes. I still see them as distinct though.
In politics, note also the difference between campaign strategies vs debate tactics.
@subtledoctor now you're just being silly. The general use has no relevance to a technical discussion, and since the duscussion is about definitions, this is assuredly a technical discussion.
I am not disagreeing entirely that to a layperson without an interest in history the differentiation is somewhat challenging. Malleability vs ductility are quite analogous, from my area of specialization. Another great analogy, Java vs HTML. Both are code languages, but have very different uses. The layperson may find differentiating two things difficult, but that certainly does not make the two any less distinct.
So subtle a personal attack that it never existed? In most fields, there are going to very specific terms that are confusingly similar to someone not specialized. As long as the both specialist and neophyte resist the urge to judge/jump to conclusions, the neophyte will eventually grasp the difference. If the specialist is condescending/judges unfairly, or the neophyte refuses to lose burdonsome pride, there are misunderstandings. Obviously not everyone needs to understand every tidbit of info, or fully grasp all the tedius minutae. Only a true fool is offended by ignorance pointed out by one offering instruction.
I'm not sure how this discussion can be anything but technical, as it was started by a question of a technical nature. Everyone agrees I think that people incorrectly use tactic and strategy interchangeably, but the technical definitions are clear enough.
If you tell your lieutenant to have a strategy discussion you will get a strange look followed by a request for clarification. If you confuse tactics and strategy, you are not meant for the military, or have recieved woefully inadequet training. So, no, you're wrong on this. No comissioned officer in a competent military would behave as you're arguing.
The fact that you can't grasp the difference stated doesn't mean you win the 'discussion' (note, only a child thinks you can win or lose an online discussion), it means you're ignorant. You did not address my examples, nor those of @FinneousPJ . All you did was say 'nope, I disagree and I offer no defenses for my position', a deeply immature debating tactic. You are free to argue what you will, but nobody has to agree.
@subtledoctor@DreadKhanCome on guys, stop fighting! You two should know better. I am going to read this thread and see what is going on. Until I make a determination this thread is closed. (Damn it all! I didn't want to spoil myself on IWD either. Ugh. I may just have another mod look at this instead.)
Comments
Strategy is long-term. The course of a campaign.
Tactical is using the abilities you have NOW to their best effect.
Strategy is ensuring that you have a good spread of options so that when forced into battle you can pick an appropriate tactic for victory based on the unique circumstances of an encounter.
Strategy can also come into play if using rest restrictions, since you're having to constantly think of whether you should use an ability because it just speeds things up or use it because you need it, since you might REALLY need it later.
strategy, n.
2.
a. The art of a commander-in-chief; the art of projecting and directing the larger military movements and operations of a campaign.
Usually distinguished from tactics, which is the art of handling forces in battle or in the immediate presence of the enemy.
1810 C. James New Mil. Dict. (ed. 3) (at cited word), Strategy differs materially from tactic; the latter belonging only to the mechanical movement of bodies, set in motion by the former.
1825 J. A. Gilbert Expos. Princ. Mil. Combinations 11 The second combination is the art of bringing the mass of one's forces as rapidly as possible on the decisive point of the primitive line of operation, or of the accidental line. It is what is vulgarly called strategy, but strategy relates only to the mode of executing this second combination.
1827 Scott Life Napoleon II. iii. 73 A brave and excellent soldier, but who had no idea of strategie [sic] or tactics, save those current during the Seven Years War.
1889 A. T. Mahan Influence Sea Power Introd. 8 Before hostile armies or fleets are brought into contact (a word which perhaps better than any other indicates the dividing line between tactics and strategy).
Oxford English Dictionary
http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/191319?result=1&rskey=lBCI38&
1. Strategy is the art of projecting and directing the larger military movements and operations of a campaign.
2. Tactics is the art or science of deploying military or naval forces in order of battle, and of performing warlike evolutions and manœuvres.
You will be dispeled when you reach Belifeth, so dont waste time buffing your team
When you reach him be sure that :
-each of your party member has a potion of regenration and 3 antidotes
- you have at least 3 good fighters with +3 or +4 bludgeoning weapons to smash the golems ( Coulon hammer should help a lot here)
- your magic users have these spells : - hastex2 - lower resistance x6 - dismissal x3 and some good summon spells
- the tanks have items or potions who protect from fire
- priest have high level healing spells, protection from evil 10' ,zone of sweat air x4 and some team buff
- all your good fighters have at least +4 weapons, don't care about the extra effect of weapons, just get the weapons with the best + bonus , or who are described as counting as +5 against extra planar enemies
enter the arena, your thief should detec trap, then all the party run on the edge of the screen. Everybody drink a potion of regeneration, mage cast haste, cleric casts buff spells, ignore Belifeth. Never return in the middle of the roon, it is full of unremovable traps.
During the fight make sure that your fighters are using potions who boost them : storm giant strength, heroism etc..
With haste you will be able to avoid Belifeth
Focus first on golems, use the best bludgeoning weapons you have
Then cast lower resistance on the fiends, then dismissal on them or use a disruption weapon on the fiends. Clerics cast zone of sweat air to remove the poison clouds of the golems
Belifeth has high resitance to magic and good saves, and you can't hurt him with weapons lower than +3 or +4 , can't be sure ,and it may depends on the difficulty level.
Now cast lower resistance on Belifeth and attack him with the weapons who have the highest + bonus , +4 or +5
You win !
for the most part,
Well besides ornstein and smough on my first playthrough. They rekt me so hard so many times, now when I fight them I take my time and decide who to kill first, which is always pretty much always smough because ornsteins armour is so sweet and playing fashion souls is more fun than playing power gaming souls.
anyways if you play like a proper PvE player and learn their attack patterns, they are all pretty easy to beat, you just have to get into that block, rechange stamina, attack, dodge roll rhythm.
Use some dirty magic if you feel the need, or poison, dark souls 2 poison works quite well on some bosses, about 1100 dmg over 30 seconds. Toxic if in dark souls one.
Also level your gear!!!!!
Thats what a new player should do, if you have been playing for a while join a covenant and do some PvP, you will become so much better so fast and learn important things like fast builds are awesome, 105 agility is minimum you should have on any build, havel monsters die like the rest, nobody uses a tower shield (this is a lie,lots of people do. I just cant phathom why), dodging is better than blocking, cosplay is cool, poison is so not cheese XD and all that other good stuff.
One more thing im more scared of making any platformy jump, than fighting any of the bosses in either of the souls games.
Lava jumps in the iron keep are way worse than fighting 2 purifiers.
Tactics can only be used in battle. Strategy refers to everything done outside actual battle. The closest you can come to blurring this distinction is a strategy of non-engagement, which usually means guerrilla tactics... but even then, non-engagement can also just mean complete avoidance. As in, no ambushes. I still see them as distinct though.
In politics, note also the difference between campaign strategies vs debate tactics.
I am not disagreeing entirely that to a layperson without an interest in history the differentiation is somewhat challenging. Malleability vs ductility are quite analogous, from my area of specialization. Another great analogy, Java vs HTML. Both are code languages, but have very different uses. The layperson may find differentiating two things difficult, but that certainly does not make the two any less distinct.
I'm not sure how this discussion can be anything but technical, as it was started by a question of a technical nature. Everyone agrees I think that people incorrectly use tactic and strategy interchangeably, but the technical definitions are clear enough.
If you tell your lieutenant to have a strategy discussion you will get a strange look followed by a request for clarification. If you confuse tactics and strategy, you are not meant for the military, or have recieved woefully inadequet training. So, no, you're wrong on this. No comissioned officer in a competent military would behave as you're arguing.
The fact that you can't grasp the difference stated doesn't mean you win the 'discussion' (note, only a child thinks you can win or lose an online discussion), it means you're ignorant. You did not address my examples, nor those of @FinneousPJ . All you did was say 'nope, I disagree and I offer no defenses for my position', a deeply immature debating tactic. You are free to argue what you will, but nobody has to agree.