What kit would you add to Fighter/Mage/Thief and why?
abacus
Member Posts: 1,307
What the title says... assume you can only add one kit.
Power play or RP reasons are fine.
I've discounted Dwarven Defender mostly due to the scarcity of Dwarf FMTs, and also the lack of available options... so you can just be angry at me about that if you like...
Power play or RP reasons are fine.
I've discounted Dwarven Defender mostly due to the scarcity of Dwarf FMTs, and also the lack of available options... so you can just be angry at me about that if you like...
- What kit would you add to Fighter/Mage/Thief and why?33 votes
- Kensai21.21%
- Berserker9.09%
- Wizard Slayer3.03%
- Barbarian6.06%
- Assassin12.12%
- Bounty Hunter0.00%
- Swashbuckler15.15%
- Shadowdancer18.18%
- Wild Mage12.12%
- Other Specialist Mage3.03%
4
Comments
Mage specialist : Diviner,Transmuter or one of the other 'weak' ones if i wanted to roleplay.
My opinion -> F/M/T with swashbuckler is stronger than with Kensai. You still only get ** in proficiency and the swashbucklers bonuses are better.
OK, I'll stop the shameless promotion stuff now.
You're also focusing on end game, I'm putting just as much focus on early game, and there i'll be much more powerful with my fullplate and swashbuckler armor bonus.
Swashbucklers get bonuses to damage. Backstabbers get multipliers.
Until your Kensai is level 12 (3 000 000 experience in a F/M/T) the swashbuckler will deal more damage because of the ability to use gloves. The swashbuckler will have ½ APR more (Gauntlets) than the kensai, that is 1APR with improved haste.
So in Baldur's Gate 1 i'll deal more damage with my swashbuckler have the same Thac0 and a TON more armor. I'll gladly trade that in for backstab and Kai.
They have the samee amount of HP, don't know where you are getting that from.
It's first when you reach end of SoA and ToB that the Kensai will deal more damage per hit, and he's still got 1 less APR and much less armor.
Oh and to answer your question, thieving skills aren't important in combat, and you can buff up and then put on your full plate afterwards.
[Edited] :
Once you get to SoA the swashbuckler will be able to use the robe of vecna and bracers of defense 3 right from the start.
I'm not going to say one of the combinations is better than the other, because they are different. I prefer a strong early and mid game character in my no-reload games which the swashbuckler is, and once i get to late SoA and ToB, i'm using a modified F/M/T, there is absolutely nothing in the game that can stop me anyway.
If you were to solo, why WS/Mage/Thief? Not because it'll be you the most powerful character, but because it'll give you a bit of a challenge, but a manageable one I think. You'll be forced to use your Thief abilities and spell casting in creative ways to compensate the WS's item restrictions.
Of course once the 3 million XP mark is reached and your first HLA becomes available you'll be in for a wonderful treat.
Conceptually it would be nice to RP the character as a self-righteous Wizard Slayer who uses every trick he has (including thievery and magic - which s/he unlike other Mages can use freely) to cleanse the realms of evil magic users. An executioner type.
In a full party the build might be a bit trying for you (not sure, never tried it myself nor do I know how patient or impatient you are).
Later on we have x6 and x7 mislead backstabs under whirlwind attack ...
Well, either that or Wild Mage as @semiticgod suggested which was my second choice.
But I wouldn't fault anyone for choosing Swash, it is a pretty close deal.
@SionIV: I sort of disagree about the whole glove thing, simply because there's only one pair of them and unless you're playing solo or have no other melee at all, they're not lost in overall damage output if you just put them on someone else.
It really comes down to personal opinion here, and even though i find the swashbuckler to be the most powerful, i would probably go for something more fun and original like a specialist mage or the bounty hunter.
But cheat like HiPS that breaks 95%+ of the game, yes please.
From this point you can literally play all BG1 naked without using a single spell with SCS and have 100% chance to win. HiPS is that powerful.
As far as damage goes, I'm still pretty sure the Kensai wins out if we're talking about a F/M/T with only one kit. The Kensai's damage bonuses come in earlier, Kai adds 1.5 to 4.5 depending on the weapon, and backstab will effectively grant extra 1 to 4 APR, compensating for the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization you're referring to. I would also point out that by the time you actually get those gauntlets, your F/M/T is almost guaranteed to have UAI, since those gauntlets only appear on the fifth level of Watcher's Keep. If you're looking for an early to midgame-oriented build, the Swashbuckler does not get a damage advantage in the time frame you mentioned.
And again, we lose a lot of defensive spells if we're using armor, so the Swashbuckler's ability to use armor isn't all that meaningful after, say, 30,000 XP, when we get Mirror Image. How often is a Fighter/Mage/Swashbuckler going to be better off wearing armor? As for bracers that give AC boosts, they're weaker than mage spells at every point in the saga (Shield beats all BG1 bracers, and Ghost Armor beats all BG2 bracers). And the mage spells override the AC bonuses. So, for most of BG1 as well, the Kensai will have better AC, unless we wear armor and disable our spells.
But more importantly, I think both of us neglected a critical issue for BG1... the Kensai has terrible missile options. And the ability to use bows is a big deal in BG1. I'd actually rate the Swashbuckler over the Kensai, come to think of it, because of its greater access to ranged weapons.
Bows are solid in BG1 agreed, but throwing weapons can deal more damage if you don't mind throwing non-magic and using melee vs enemies requiring magic to hit. Most of the time a dagger will do pretty well, due to strength. Lack of side-effects is a disadvantage though, no dispel daggers, no daggers of detonation (...though unless you go Assassin, why not just use the Necklace of Missiles anyways??).
In ToB Assassin gets it's x6 multiplier at 4.5mil and x7 at 7.2mil which would be a pretty huge windfall though it has to be weighed against +4/+4 from Swash and +6/+6 for kensei (don't forget the assassins +1/+1).
As soon as you get UAI kensei starts to looks much better and Swash loses out hugely.
SoA is the question mark. Which kit is better there? No UAI hamstrings the kensei but the bonuses are becoming significant. No mislead yet keeps the Swash in contention and robe/elven chain use combined with Swash bonuses gives the best maintainable AC. Assassin bonus and poison still make a significant difference but the lower thief points might necessitate a second thief in the party (in contrast to bg1 where a second thief is optimal IMO and ToB when the assassin catches up on points).