NWN EE

shredstallion

I have to say I never thought about revisiting NWN until it was brought up in a recent interview. Had it not been for World of Warcraft's release and the internal beef with the developers of NWN, I thought it would have gone much further than it did. NWN2 did not live up to my expectations with the recycled sound effects, soundtrack, and cartoony soft looking options we had in character creation. I was looking at youtube videos revisiting the game and I thought "There aint no F'ing I'm dusting off all of those discs for this." However, how far could Beamdog take it if they did make an EE? What is the Community's opinions on the matter?

YupImMadBro

I would snap buy it.

JuliusBorisov

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32362/it-seems-beamdog-has-quitted-on-the-idea-of-nwn-ee-for-now#latest

iKrivetko

I would love a remastered NWN with better graphics, more classes and a refreshed code to make it run on up to date platforms. Alas, at the moment it is but a wet dream.

Seldar

NWN with Infinity Engine yes I'd love to see it

But a "simple" EE with the NWN engine, no I won't

The should enhance IWD2 now

Archaos

iKrivetko said:

I would love a remastered NWN with better graphics, more classes and a refreshed code to make it run on up to date platforms. Alas, at the moment it is but a wet dream.

Soo, NwN2? Because it has better graphics (better with mods), FAR more classes PrCs races and spells and runs great on modern machines (at least on Windows 7).

I think NwN2 needs an EE far more but eh. I can wait.

iKrivetko

Why would NWN2 need an EE if it is already pretty and runs on modern machines?

wubble

The problem with an NWN EE is that it could be far more expensive and difficult to revamp. Updating the graphics in a 3d game would be really hard and there were never many games on the same engine, there were at least 3 infinity engine games that could easily be coded for with PST:EE and IWD2 being slightly harder. but as far as I know the only other games which used the aurora engine were nwn2 with a heavily modified version and the witcher(which A. doesn't need enhancing and B. is completely out of line with Beamdog's area).

wubble

iKrivetko said:

Why would NWN2 need an EE if it is already pretty and runs on modern machines?

It's buggy as shit from what I remember.

FinneousPJ

The problem is if NWNEE isn't compatible with legacy modules it's pointless.

elminster

bengoshi said:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32362/it-seems-beamdog-has-quitted-on-the-idea-of-nwn-ee-for-now#latest

The link you posted elsewhere shows that one of the domains is nwnrealmswar.com

There is also realmswar.com

https://whoisology.com/email/archive_8/trento@shaw.ca

So maybe they are looking at another NWN game instead

iKrivetko

wubble said:

The problem with an NWN EE is that it could be far more expensive and difficult to revamp. Updating the graphics in a 3d game would be really hard and there were never many games on the same engine, there were at least 3 infinity engine games that could easily be coded for with PST:EE and IWD2 being slightly harder. but as far as I know the only other games which used the aurora engine were nwn2 with a heavily modified version and the witcher(which A. doesn't need enhancing and B. is completely out of line with Beamdog's area).

I could be wrong, but I believe that revamping 3D is easier than creating sprites. As far as I know, sprites are made using 3d models a priori, so with 3D you have one step less.

By the way, NWN2 uses the electron toolset which is based on aurora, but is a wee bit different.

wubble said:

iKrivetko said:

Why would NWN2 need an EE if it is already pretty and runs on modern machines?

It's buggy as shit from what I remember.

It is quite buggy indeed, but many bugs can be fixed via mods.

SionIV

We also have to remember that a NWN:EE with updated graphics will require a lot more from our computers. BG:EE/IWD:EE aren't that much different from the originals when it comes to requirements of your computer, imagine what a leap NwN would be with improved graphics. If the graphics will be on the same level of todays 3D games, i won't even be able to run it on my laptops.

[Edited] : And i'm using some pretty powerful gaming laptops.

scriver

@iKrivetko - no new sorites were created for the EE games, though.

@elminster - in before Oster comes in and tells us not to put too much stock in hid domain buying habits

shredstallion

Let's look at RPGs over the last 10+ years, and some of these picks are a matter of opinion. BG 1&2, IWD 1&2, NWN 1&2, World of Warcraft, The Witcher, Skyrim, Lotro, and others I can't think of are great games to draw from. Now let's look at a few flops, Age of Conan, and Neverwinter Online. Now ask ourselves why we liked some of these titles and hated the others....I absolutely hated NWO, it looked like a cartoony Japanese piece of shit that was no more than a glorified Gauntlet Legends.

shredstallion

SionIV said:

We also have to remember that a NWN:EE with updated graphics will require a lot more from our computers. BG:EE/IWD:EE aren't that much different from the originals when it comes to requirements of your computer, imagine what a leap NwN would be with improved graphics. If the graphics will be on the same level of todays 3D games, i won't even be able to run it on my laptops.

[Edited] : And i'm using some pretty powerful gaming laptops.

I would expect it to require more than a system that can run WOW.

SionIV

shredstallion said:

Let's look at RPGs over the last 10+ years, and some of these picks are a matter of opinion. BG 1&2, IWD 1&2, NWN 1&2, World of Warcraft, The Witcher, Skyrim, Lotro, and others I can't think of are great games to draw from. Now let's look at a few flops, Age of Conan, and Neverwinter Online. Now ask ourselves why we liked some of these titles and hated the others....I absolutely hated NWO, it looked like a cartoony Japanese piece of shit that was no more than a glorified Gauntlet Legends.

World of Warcraft had a huge world people were already familiar with from the earlier games and had been out for quite a long time before Age of Conan came. So people were familiar with the world, they had already spent countless hours on their characters, and by then most of the bugs were removed from WoW.

Then Age of Conan comes with a world that while famous, isn't nearly as famous as Warcraft in the gaming community. It's a game that you have to start all over with and It's a new game so there are quite a few bugs. It didn't help either that people called it a WoW killer, already from the start the expectations were massive. It was a good game on it's own, but it couldn't compete with WoW.

Same thing with Lord of the rings online and Warhammer online. They were good games on their own and actually did some things better than WoW (Warhammer PvP). But by the time those games hit the market people had already spent over 2 years on Wow and most weren't willing to trade games at that point.

While Guild Wars was a little bit different than most other MMO, it is my favorite by far and i loved that game. When it came out it was the MMO with the second largest player base right after WoW.

Let's not forget the Fallout games, if i don't remember wrong, they were one of the main reasons we actually got Baldur's Gate.

Belanos

wubble said:

It's buggy as shit from what I remember.

You're not remembering clearly then, I hardly had any problems with it at all. You might be thinking of the original release, but there were a ton of patches released for it that fixed a lot of issues. There was supposed to be at least one more released, but it was cancelled when Atari and Hasbro had their legal spat.

shredstallion

Belanos said:

wubble said:

It's buggy as shit from what I remember.

You're not remembering clearly then, I hardly had any problems with it at all. You might be thinking of the original release, but there were a ton of patches released for it that fixed a lot of issues. There was supposed to be at least one more released, but it was cancelled when Atari and Hasbro had their legal spat.

Neverwinter Nights 2 just had less crappy graphics and recycled sound effects from the original.

iKrivetko

Belanos said:

wubble said:

It's buggy as shit from what I remember.

You're not remembering clearly then, I hardly had any problems with it at all. You might be thinking of the original release, but there were a ton of patches released for it that fixed a lot of issues. There was supposed to be at least one more released, but it was cancelled when Atari and Hasbro had their legal spat.

Sorry, but you are clearly clueless

Uncanny dodge isn't working
Devil's sight isn't working
Warlocks only gain half their caster level, while 10d6 blasts ignore spell resistance completely
Devastating blow is a mess
Awareness lets you progress in both arcane and divine spells
Expose weakness is an autohit and does not reduce the number of attacks either
FB's Frenzy stacks with haste (as in adds an extra attack)
Precise strike works against units with crit/sneak immunity
PM's sneak immunity isn't working
Falchion epic feats require less than they should

shall I carry on?

Belanos

iKrivetko said:

Sorry, but you are clearly clueless

Uncanny dodge isn't working
Devil's sight isn't working
Warlocks only gain half their caster level, while 10d6 blasts ignore spell resistance completely
Devastating blow is a mess
Awareness lets you progress in both arcane and divine spells
Expose weakness is an autohit and does not reduce the number of attacks either
FB's Frenzy stacks with haste (as in adds an extra attack)
Precise strike works against units with crit/sneak immunity
PM's sneak immunity isn't working
Falchion epic feats require less than they should

shall I carry on?

And as I mentioned, they were supposed to release another big patch when the legal problems with Hasbro put a stop to it. There was a great deal that had been dealt with in all the previous patches, and there were quite a few of those. And while the things you mention were quirks in the game, they can hardly be considered bugs in the normal sense of the word. The game was very stable, with nothing game breaking in it. Everything you mention in that list are just examples of being nit-picky about minor issues.

shredstallion said:

Neverwinter Nights 2 just had less crappy graphics and recycled sound effects from the original.

Yeah so? Why should they have started from scratch with everything? There was nothing wrong with the sound effects from the original game. If that is your main complaint about the game, then you are being extremely nit-picky.

FinneousPJ

@shredstallion I'm pretty sure BG has loads of recycled stuff as well.

SionIV

Neverwinter Nights 2 has been the most bug ridden single player RPG game I've ever played (and I've played games like Vampire Bloodlines: Masquerade and Arcanum). I didn't even get to complete the game because there was a scene after you killed some Gianthyuaiaiaaiaia (however you spell their name) to save a lady (an evil mages daughter) and after that the game crashed, every single time. It was also a challenge to even get to that point, with several bugs in the gameplay, combat and some areas were hard to get through as well, there were even chests i had to click a million of times on to loot.

scriver

I can't remember any single problem with bugs I had with NwN2 (although I would argue the camera is horrible enough to be labeled one big bug on it's own). But then again I might've gotten lucky. But I really don't think it compares to any of the Troika games.

SionIV

scriver said:

I can't remember any single problem with bugs I had with NwN2 (although I would argue the camera is horrible enough to be labeled one big bug on it's own). But then again I might've gotten lucky. But I really don't think it compares to any of the Troika games.

Both NwN2 and Vampire Bloodlines: Masquerade were impossible to complete and it took some time for that problem to get fixed. But up until that point Masquerade had much less annoying bugs than NwN2.

Kamigoroshi

Back on topic...

As I've already said in another thread, I probably would buy NwN:EE in a heartbeat if it also comes with all Premium Modules included. I'm still angry at myself for not purchasing Pirates of the Sword Coast and Wyvern Crown of Cormyr. It's so vexing that none of them are purchasable anymore!

Best of all of course would be if said Premium Modules were made modable just like NwN's official campaigns. The ability of using high-res texture and creature model replacers immensely helps to enjoy the otherwise dreadful graphics of the vanilla game.

Belanos

scriver said:

I can't remember any single problem with bugs I had with NwN2 (although I would argue the camera is horrible enough to be labeled one big bug on it's own).

Nor do I. Aside from an occasional crash to desktop, and I can't think of any game where that doesn't occur from time to time, I had no problems at all while playing through it. It's actually one of the few games where I've actually played the whole thing, including the expansions. Though I haven't made it through that "adventure pack" that was released yet. I didn't even mind the camera. I can see if you were trying to get an over-the-shoulder view it might be a pain, but I always went with an isometric angle. And I don't consider some spells and abilities not working quite as intended to be bugs.

Crowseye

I'm curious as to what people consider "untouchable" in NWN.

For the EEs of BG1 and 2, for example, the background/area art is so closely identified with the games themselves that you aren't going to remake the games in isometric 2D and completely redo the art. BG1's class system was clearly not untouchable, since it was replaced with BG2's system. Stack limits were increased, but the inventory system remained the same.

What in NWN would have you saying, "You can't change that!" aside from the story, obviously, and the basic d20 framework?

Kamigoroshi

Crowseye said:

What in NWN would have you saying, "You can't change that!" aside from the story, obviously, and the basic d20 framework?

Only the portraits come to mind, really. They're pretty much the best ones out there other than IWD's.

But other than them? As long as it doesn't affect backwards compatiblity with existing mods and custom campaign modules, I'd be happy if they'd change as much as possible. Chances are the game wouldn't look like a damn toolset preview anymore.

scriver

@Crowseye - the Toolset functionality.

Buttercheese

NWN never got me, mostly because it shifted from roleplay to dungeon crawling (Boo!). The lack of interesting NPCs also bothered me a lot. Well, and the story was boring too, at least for as far as I played.
If they would actually fix that, I might be able to get into it after all.

Other than that, I say skip NWN1 and enhance NWN2. Fix the awfull controlls, put in prettier textures and facial animations, add more character model options, maybe add more (interesting) clothing and tweak some minor stuff. Most importantly restore cut content, such as the Neeshka and Bishop romances.

NWN2, especially Mask of the Betrayer, is a true gem, though a diamond in the rough.
I wish more people would play it ;o;