Berserker & Brage's sword combination

FrdNwsm

OK, I have reached an interesting situation in BG1, from a theoretical viewpoint. I suppose I could just test it out, and reload if something bad happens, but I'm trying to avoid that route. (I'm not on a stringent no reload protocol, but I do feel it's like admitting a loss, and only do it if MyChar gets killed). Let me put it out there, and see what you folks think.

MyChar is a half-orc berserker, specializing heavily in two handed swords. When he berserks, it's in a controlled fashion; he gets to choose whom he attacks. About 20 minutes ago, we encountered Brage, and killed him. My guy now has Brage's cursed sword, which just happens to be a +3 two hander. Mmmm, tempting, very tempting! Alas, the sword is cursed, such that the user goes berserk in combat in an uncontrolled manner, and may end up attacking fellow party members. (I'm sure you can see where this is going :P)

So, if I have the sword in my backpack, go berserk on my own first, and THEN grab it ... will I still be able to be in control of my actions? Remember, when voluntarily berserking, I'm immune to mind control of any sort. So, I'd say yes to that query, but that's just a guess. Maybe the curse is strong enough to override this immunity. Now, can the sword force me to go into another, involuntary berserk state after the voluntay one ends, or am I too exhausted for that to happen? I'd guess yes to the exhaustion bit, but hey, it's a curse, it's magic, it may defy logic. Or ... can you berserk twice in a row ordinarily? How about if I have two berserk actions per day, can I follow the first one up with the second immediately, without resting? Doesn't seem likely, but there might be a rules loophole allowing it.

OK, obviously I'll still need a cleric to cast remove curse on me before the next combat no matter what, so I can stow it away again in my backpack until the next time, but my cleric has access to that spell, so that's not a problem.

Tresset

It doesn't work like that. The sword makes you lose control no matter what you do. It also has no bearing on the use of your rage ability. You are probably better off getting the awesome Spider's Bane or the World's Edge. Even Gold Digger is better.

FrdNwsm

Drat; oh well, I did consider the possibility that the curse was stronger than the voluntary berserk, but I had hopes that was not the case. It would have been nice to have it be otherwise. And yes, I had Spider'sbane in a different incarnation, and the freedom of action effect is indeed most excellent. MyChar wasn't even a berserker that time; the combination of the sword's abilities plus berserker immunities promises to be awesome indeed. Too bad it's "only" a +2 weapon.

Does using Brage's sword convey the same immunities as a voluntary berserk? If so I can imagine certain limited circumstances where it still might be usable, as long as I stay out of sight of the rest of my party, so I can't attack them. I haven't gotten Spider's bane yet in this run-through; otherwise the question clearly wouldn't even arise.

Clearing the Cloakwood is a prolonged campaign in and of itself. I'm close to hitting the Cloakwood sites, but wanted to grab the manual of health from that cave first, to give to Neera. I was thinking I'd send Imoen in first to disarm the traps, then have her withdraw while I went in alone, berserked, then grabbed the cursed sword and whacked the guardians. Feasible?

Tresset

The berserking sword is only a +3 sword that makes you go nuts. It does not offer any immunities whatsoever. The only thing I see the sword being useful for is annoying sirens, since they may still be targeted if you are charmed by them while berserk. It is, however, the most damaging two-handed sword in the game. (This is because being berserked offers a +2 bonus to thac0 and damage, effectively making the sword a +5 two handed sword (it still strikes as a +3 though)!)

There is another two-handed sword in the game that is +3, but without the berserking side effect. That would be "The World's Edge", which I mentioned earlier.

FrdNwsm

>>The only thing I see the sword being useful for is annoying sirens, since they may still be targeted if you are charmed by them while berserk.<<

Precisely what I was contemplating. Berserk voluntarily (which in itself makes me immune to their dire charm ability) as soon as I see those annoying bimbos, grab the +3 sword and go to town on them; meanwhile Branwen is waiting outside the area with a remove curse spell for the aftermath of the combat. Repeat the process when entering the cave with the manual. Then on to Cloakwood to get Spider's bane, which, despite having a THACO that's one less, will be eminently more effective with it's free action ability. I can then retire Brage's sword; maybe donate it to a museum.

kcwise

That's a clever use of a cursed sword!

leeowensoas

I like using either the Cursed Berzerking sword or Keil's morningstar on a melee character with boots of speed and just back them up with 5 archers. It keeps the berzerked character far away from party members and the damage output/killing speed is absolutely insane

FrdNwsm

OK, I had forgotten about the sirens on the shipwreck map area; the plan worked fine against them. They wasted a round trying to charm me, then turned invisible. They lacked patience however, and started attacking me physically on round 3. I got them all, although I did take a fair amount of damage. They aren't the world's best melee fighters, but with three of them attacking, I was pretty ragged, especially once my berserk wore off and I lost those extra 15 HP.

That one was a little too close for comfort. The suggestion about archers (see post above this one) is a good idea. All 5 of my other party members are capable of using missile weapons, either arrows or slings, to provide long range fire support. If the sirens get killed off before the sword's influence ends, they will be far enough away to outrun me until the fit ends. So, on to the Lighthouse!

Heh, for the sirens, those will be "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" that will cut them down.

FrdNwsm

I just had another thought. Is there a way I can take Branwen into combat with me? If she casts Sanctuary prior to the combat starting, the sirens shouldn't be able to target her with their dire charms, and she can heal me during the fight. She can also cast remove curse the minute the combat is over. Logically it should work, but we're talking opposing magics here, so logic isn't necessarily applicable. Is the curse strong enough to make me attack her despite the sanctuary spell?

FrdNwsm

OK, there are actually two groups of sirens on the Lighthouse map. I took Branwen in with me each time, and it worked well. The first time, she kept wanting to attack with her warhammer, which would have blown the whole Sanctuary deal. I couldn't figure out why, until I realized that I had left the NPC AI control set to "on". Doh! ::insert facepalm here::

This AI is great for not having to micro manage set-piece fights against dinks such as kobolds, but if you are going to pull off a maneuver like this where the cleric has to maintain his/her sanctuary, remember to turn it off

Also a warning! The sanctuary worked fine against the siren's dire charm. However, the second set of sirens were defeated before the berserk state wore off, and the curse actually proved stronger than the sanctuary! She was starting to cast remove curse but I was too fast and started attacking her, and had to have her run away for two rounds until I finally calmed down.

Not going to bother using the cursed sword against the cave guardians; using the wretched thing is tricky and they're just beef. My plain old +1 weapon should work fine.

Belanos

FrdNwsm said:

If so I can imagine certain limited circumstances where it still might be usable, as long as I stay out of sight of the rest of my party, so I can't attack them.

The problem with that idea is that cursed items can't be unequipped unless a Remove Curse spell is cast. So you can't choose when to wield it like you would with a normal sword. Once it's in your hand you're stuck with it until the spell is cast. So it's best to avoid it all together and just get some gold for it.

FrdNwsm

>>The problem with that idea is that cursed items can't be unequipped unless a Remove Curse spell is cast. <<

I did say "limited". Whacking the sirens was pretty much the end of its current usefulness. Once the fit wore off, my cleric was able approach and cast the remove curse. I have Spider's Bane now, which is superior in so many ways, despite the THACO being 1 less. (I didn't have that when fighting the sirens). I do have it stashed away, in case a need arises for a +3 weapon before I manage to find World's Edge, but hopefully that won't arise.

smeagolheart

aren't there any classes or cases where you can be immune to the mind problems from this sword?

Belanos

smeagolheart said:

aren't there any classes or cases where you can be immune to the mind problems from this sword?

No, the curse will override everything.

Tresset

smeagolheart said:

aren't there any classes or cases where you can be immune to the mind problems from this sword?

@smeagolheart Well, what d'ya know! Looks like Hexxat is immune to this effect!

deltago

Another hole in your proposal is that it is a cursed sword. You will be unable to unequip it to put it in your inventory after every battle unless you have remove curse memorized or visit a temple.

smeagolheart

Tresset said:

smeagolheart said:

aren't there any classes or cases where you can be immune to the mind problems from this sword?

@smeagolheart Well, what d'ya know! Looks like Hexxat is immune to this effect!

maybe dumb question but isn't hexxat in BG2EE and the sword is in BG1EE?

Tresset

@smeagolheart Smaeluv Orcslicer has one in the upper floor of the Den of Seven Veils.

smeagolheart

Tresset said:

@smeagolheart Smaeluv Orcslicer has one in the upper floor of the Den of Seven Veils.

Oh I guess since I played Baldurs Gate 2 with the Item Randomizer mod I had not seen him with that lol.

Gallowglass

Tresset said:

@smeagolheart Well, what d'ya know! Looks like Hexxat is immune to this effect!

Interesting, but rather pointless since Hexxat is a Thief and therefore can't use a Two-Handed Sword, except late game under UAI, and even then she can't be proficient with it. Maybe Hexxat's immunity is merely an oversight.

Tresset

@Gallowglass She is immune to all kinds of morale failure for obvious reasons. It is not an oversight.

I agree that her using the sword is quite pointless though. (If only it were like it was in the pre-release days of BG2:EE where you could dual her to fighter...)

Gallowglass

Tresset said:

She is immune to all kinds of morale failure for obvious reasons. It is not an oversight.

Ah, I didn't realise that the berzerking caused by the cursed sword was implemented as an instance of "morale failure: berzerk", since there are also other varieties of berzerking in the game. But yes, now that you mention it, it makes sense to have done it that way, and of course Hexxat would be immune to morale failure. Thanks for this clarification.

The_Potty_1

I've always felt that in BG2 this sword should have been upgraded to +6. IN BG1 there are limited times where the sword is tempting to use, but in BG2 it's utterly worthless, except to sell.