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[1.2 to 1.3 update] Torgal won't die after patching the game

GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
edited March 2015 in BGII:EE Bugs (v1.3.2064)
I've gotten to the basement of the de'whatever castle but I'm having difficulties killing TorGal. I must have done at leat 80 damage to him after he got down to "Near Death" a lot of it from the Fail of Ages and flame arrow spells but he just won't die. Is there some trick to killing this guy that I can't see?

Post edited by Gate70 on

Comments

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2015
    Gespenst said:

    I've gotten to the basement of the de'whatever castle but I'm having difficulties killing TorGal. I must have done at leat 80 damage to him after he got down to "Near Death" a lot of it from the Fail of Ages and flame arrow spells but he just won't die. Is there some trick to killing this guy that I can't see?

    Trolls are notoriously glitchy and buggy, sometimes they just won't fall down so you can finish them of. If you're fighting a troll that won't die, try to walk away from it and move it around a bit, most of the time it will fall down while walking, other times it'll fall down a few hits later after you have moved them.

    The tactics component (mod) also does some insane things with Thor'gal if you have that installed.

    You can also try Melfs Acid Arrow (Level 2 wizard spell) it is my normal go-to when i kill trolls.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    Are you running any mods?

  • GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
    ^ None.

    ^^ Thanks, I tried out that advice. I kited him back upstairs after I got him to nearly dead + about 40hp. At this point I've exhausted all my casts of flame arrow, flame strike and acid arrow. I got him trapped on a corner and he sat in a cloudkill spell for it's full duration. I've even summoned two lesser fire elementals to punch him with fire.

    http://i.imgur.com/kCZZAxS.jpg

    This is getting a bit silly now.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2015
    Gespenst said:

    ^ None.

    ^^ Thanks, I tried out that advice. I kited him back upstairs after I got him to nearly dead + about 40hp. At this point I've exhausted all my casts of flame arrow, flame strike and acid arrow. I got him trapped on a corner and he sat in a cloudkill spell for it's full duration. I've even summoned two lesser fire elementals to punch him with fire.

    http://i.imgur.com/kCZZAxS.jpg

    This is getting a bit silly now.

    Do you have any instant kill spells available? Disintegrate, Finger of Death, slay living, Petrification? They will put down a troll to the floor so you can finish it of if they fail their saving throw. You could also try to use Harm (level 6 divine spell) to put his HP down to 1 which should make him fall down to the floor.

    You only have to use fire or acid spells/attacks when he is lying down to finish him, you don't have to use them before.

    And out of curiosity, could you try to make a new save file, throw Nalia out of your party and attack him? It could have something to do with one of her dialogues not triggering on his death. I rarely have her in my party so i can't remember her dialogues.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    Would it be possible for you attach a save file here? If you are throwing this much at him it could be a bug.

    Heindrich
  • GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
    SionIV said:

    Gespenst said:

    ^ None.

    Do you have any instant kill spells available? Disintegrate, Finger of Death, slay living, Petrification? They will put down a troll to the floor so you can finish it of if they fail their saving throw. You could also try to use Harm (level 6 divine spell) to put his HP down to 1 which should make him fall down to the floor.

    And out of curiosity, could you try to make a new save file, throw Nalia out of your party and attack him? It could have something to do with one of her dialogues not triggering on his death. I rarely have her in my party so i can't remember her dialogues.

    I dont't any of those spells unfortunately. I tried a couple of times to hit him with Harm with Jaheria but I don't know if she just failed or what.

    I kicked Nalia out of my party, she went outside to wait but he still seems pretty immortal.

    ^ Ok, I don't know it's just the save file or the whole folder that I'd need to upload so there's the whole thing.

    SionIV
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I've moved this to the bug reporting section. Somebody clever will take a took at it. :smile:

    Gespenst
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2015
    Here you go, it's a save file where i edited in a scroll of finger of death to Aerie. I tried it myself and he'll die instantly to it, just reload until he fails the save throw, took me two tries.

    I wasn't able to kill him the normal way in your save.

    And if you walk Nalia in first, she'll have a special dialogue with him that didn't trigger for me if you let anyone else be the one to initiate with Thor'Gal.

    Gespenst
  • GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
    edited March 2015
    Oh yeah, I forgot about that aspect: When I went in the first time her dialogue didn't trigger and he didn't attack us for maybe 30 seconds after the fight started. I thought it was odd but I kept leading with her after that to get the dialogue going.

    Thanks for the help, I'll go and try it out now.

    Edit: There we go! I don't know if it's just a coincidence but every time his dialogue with Nalia triggered he either made his save or the spell failed due to magic resistance. Then I just sent Aerie in, invisible so she only triggered him and she killed him first try.

    Thank you for your help.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Gespenst said:

    Oh yeah, I forgot about that aspect: When I went in the first time her dialogue didn't trigger and he didn't attack us for maybe 30 seconds after the fight started. I thought it was odd but I kept leading with her after that to get the dialogue going.

    Thanks for the help, I'll go and try it out now.

    Edit: There we go! I don't know if it's just a coincidence but every time his dialogue with Nalia triggered he either made his save or the spell failed due to magic resistance. Then I just sent Aerie in, invisible so she only triggered him and she killed him first try.

    Thank you for your help.

    You're welcome!

    Good luck on your adventure and I'm sure that the awesome team here at beamdog will come up with a more permanent and stable solution to the problem.

    Gespenst
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    Yea it looks like its a bug. I got him down to 1 health and even when I left him alone for a bit he still didn't fall down.

    SionIVGespenst
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    edited March 2015
    But... I just killed him in my run! How could he be broken for some but not others without mod involvement...

    What the heck am I saying?! I am supposed to be figuring this stuff out! Time to crack open some .BCS!

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    Wut? I ctrl-m'd him and he is missing cdtorgal.itm! This is the item that makes him fall down when he is injured. I wonder how... Wait... I think I may know what is going on here...

    Where was your party when you updated your game to the latest patch? Had you already entered the basement of the keep before updating and did you update before fighting Torgal? I am sure those more experienced with how BG handles save game files are starting to realize what I am getting at... I would explain further but my brain is shutting down because of tired-ness and I can no longer find words... I am pretty certain this is not an issue though and you will never have to worry about this again if you start a new game ever...

    Gespenst
  • Gate70Gate70 Member, Developer Posts: 3,786
    Try this save @Gespenst I put a new copy of TorGal in the save.

    My question would have been did you visit the basement, then update the game to the latest patch.
    (good to see Tresset has come to the same conclusion)

    elminsterGespenst
  • GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
    Tresset said:


    Where was your party when you updated your game to the latest patch? Had you already entered the basement of the keep before updating and did you update before fighting Torgal?

    No! ...or, whatever. Yes.

    ...It's possible, although I don't remember for sure. I'm using version 1.3 it looks like but I don't remember when I updated.

    Do updates not work well with games in progress? Will I need to start a new game to avoid similar problems in the future?

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    It is somewhat complicated and difficult to explain in layman's terms. Some changes that are made by a patch or mod are not applied to a save game that is in progress. In this case when you first visited the basement it loaded Torgal as he was in patch 1.2, without the new ring he was given. When the patch was applied the game did not re-load the area in that saved game and Torgal was not updated with the ring. If you had updated the game before your first visit to the basement area it would have loaded the 1.3 version of Torgal instead and things would have worked. You should not need to start a new game. Issues caused by this sort of thing are relatively rare.

    Gespenst
  • GespenstGespenst Member Posts: 31
    I see, thank you.

    If you don't mind me asking what made him fall down before? Nothing?

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    A .bcs file. .bcs files are basically the scripts that get assigned to all creatures, areas, and events in the game (including you and your party) to tell them how to behave. Torgal appears to be one of 3 types of trolls that was given an item with an effect that will cast a knock out spell on him when his HP is below a certain point. This used to be done by his .bcs file but that was moved to his new item. The Change to the .bcs (which was the removal of the KO script) took place immediately upon updating, But the item could not be added to Torgal as he had already been loaded without it and thus, in your saved game there was no KO script for him and he would not fall down.

    Gespenstwubblehook71Doubledimas
  • KingLichKingLich Member Posts: 2
    Hi. I think I'm in the same boat with Torgal. I was having trouble beating him so I left the game for a pretty long time. It must have updated to 1.3 in the meantime and now he won't go down no matter what I do to him (Ctrl+Y included).

    Here's my save file. I hope you can help.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    @KingLich Here you go. Let me know if you run into any further issues.

    Gate70
  • KingLichKingLich Member Posts: 2
    @Tresset Thanks a lot! That worked perfectly.

  • GenryuGenryu Member Posts: 372
    edited March 2015
    I had the same issue, but somone recommended using a finger of death scroll, which worked fine (After several reloads trying to make it stick).

    Note: I had to use shadow keeper to give my self a scroll, I don't normally like cheating but I think it can be overlooked in the circumstance.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,224
    Genryu said:

    Note: I had to use shadow keeper to give my self a scroll, I don't normally like cheating but I think it can be overlooked in the circumstance.

    @Genryu I should certainly hope so... That is what could be called "debugging" and not "cheating". Also, why could you not use the console? iPad?

  • GenryuGenryu Member Posts: 372
    edited March 2015
    Tresset said:

    Genryu said:

    Note: I had to use shadow keeper to give my self a scroll, I don't normally like cheating but I think it can be overlooked in the circumstance.

    @Genryu I should certainly hope so... That is what could be called "debugging" and not "cheating". Also, why could you not use the console? iPad?
    Shadowkeeper is just easier on my old addled brain.

    In fact yesterday was my first time ever actually using the console, as I was trying to overcome that bug that wouldn't let me leave the pocket plane.

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