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Infinity engine games STILL need...

IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Every single infinity engine game ever made... ALL of them, and I have indeed played every one at least once, needs two things desperately:

-MUCH better pathfinding algorithms
-Better AI for enemies

many small improvements have been made over the years, but these two things STILL dog these games, even after all the various versions and patches, including this "enhanced" version.

How bloody hard is it to tell the ai pathfinding NOT to seek an alternative path every bloody time you are blocked for half a second moving forward? Maybe make it pause for a second to see if the way forward is clear again before doing a 180 and running off in some weird not-intended-at-all direction.

or hell, do like a lot of other modern games do and make it so your own party does not block each other from moving forward, they just can't stand in the same spot.

not. hard.

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    The pathfinding already improved to a decent degree with the latest EE patches. But I agree there's always room for further improvements. As for better AI, there should be various mods out there that address this already.

    On the other hand, one thing that was always amiss within all of the Infinity Engine games was the possibility to cross small bodies of water through swimming. Indeed, I'd love to take a nice dip once in a while! Hopefully this will be made possible in BG3 or IWD3. :triumph:
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    Kamigoroshi said:

    The pathfinding already improved to a decent degree with the latest EE patches. But I agree there's always room for further improvements. As for better AI, there should be various mods out there that address this already.

    On the other hand, one thing that was always amiss within all of the Infinity Engine games was the possibility to cross small bodies of water through swimming. Indeed, I'd love to take a nice dip once in a while! Hopefully this will be made possible in BG3 or IWD3. :triumph:

    Not in icewind the pathfinding is bloody horrible in that game, as to AI also no, nobody's ever made a AI enhancement mod for icewind dale
  • simplessimples Member Posts: 540
    Kamigoroshi said:


    On the other hand, one thing that was always amiss within all of the Infinity Engine games was the possibility to cross small bodies of water through swimming. Indeed, I'd love to take a nice dip once in a while! Hopefully this will be made possible in BG3 or IWD3. :triumph:

    in full plate and dual-wielding maces? unlikely

  • kellclkellcl Member Posts: 24
    simples said:

    Kamigoroshi said:


    On the other hand, one thing that was always amiss within all of the Infinity Engine games was the possibility to cross small bodies of water through swimming. Indeed, I'd love to take a nice dip once in a while! Hopefully this will be made possible in BG3 or IWD3. :triumph:

    in full plate and dual-wielding maces? unlikely

    Can always add new floatation spell. When the spell expires character starts drowning if they are beyond certain weight limit.
  • IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
    edited March 2015
    Kamigoroshi said:

    The pathfinding already improved to a decent degree with the latest EE patches.


    I disagree. the only patch to any infinity engine that ever improved the pathfinding at all, was the very first patch to the very first Baldur's gate game, where they fixed the "scatter like scared monkeys" every time combat wasn't in a huge open area.

    past that... nope. pathfinding looks the same to me now as it did the very first time I played IWD, years and years ago.

    even in Kuldahar, you can't bloody walk from the blacksmith to the mage tower without half your group deciding to take detours that send them halfway across the map.

    you have to micromanage movements longer than a few yards. it's the single biggest detractor this engine still has IMO. everything else can be modded easily by gamers themselves.

    but not that.

    seriously, the problems could be sloppily fixed simply by removing in party characters as obstacles.

    make it so that when moving, characters can clip past each other without interference, and when they stop, then clipping starts again just so you don't end up with characters standing on top of each other.



  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Pathfinding has been improved. I just had everyone move between the smithy and mage tower. A few initially went the wrong way but corrected themselves. In the original game they would have just walked into the tree and stood there doing nothing.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Ichthyic said:


    not. hard.

    Great. Start scripting. Looking forward to your Pathfinding mod.

    OR

    Enjoy the scenery and use waypoints.

    OR

    Ctrl J
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    The pathfinding issue was addressed by Trent in a pair of interviews with Venturebeat before the new year. Essentially, there are a lot of things in the game that expect characters to take X time to path from point A to B. If you improve the pathing and change that time, you have to go back and update all those scripts. Of course, since this is the IE, they aren't linked and there is no easy to way to change them en masse.

    What do the IE games still need? Scroll bars on the kit selection window. ToBex did it, I'm sure Beamdog could too.
  • IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
    agris said:

    The pathfinding issue was addressed by Trent in a pair of interviews with Venturebeat before the new year. Essentially, there are a lot of things in the game that expect characters to take X time to path from point A to B. If you improve the pathing and change that time, you have to go back and update all those scripts. Of course, since this is the IE, they aren't linked and there is no easy to way to change them en masse.

    What do the IE games still need? Scroll bars on the kit selection window. ToBex did it, I'm sure Beamdog could too.

    that simply doesn't wash.

    why?

    boots of speed.

    so, scripts are written to account for your crew getting somewhere 1.4 times as fast, or twice as fast?

    yeah, I don't buy that argument. It's an excuse, not a legit argument. Like I said, you can play with character clipping to fix this, and that wouldn't change the character speeds at all.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    I'm not saying it washes, but that's the stated reason.

    http://venturebeat.com/2014/12/09/how-a-tiny-studio-enhanced-icewind-dale-and-other-classic-dd-games-interview-part-1/
  • IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
    my opinion of trent just went down several notches.

    I used to work for a game dev, and that was a dodge, not an answer.

    I'm guessing they really don't have full knowledge of the game engine code, or else the engine itself simply won't allow for really changing how pathfinding works. just minor tweaks to timing.

    no, really, these game still have the worst pathfinding I have ever seen in any fantasy adventure games.

    just now, after talking to seth in dorn's deep, i selected my group and told them to move east, back down the ramp.

    2 seconds later, my mage decides he's going to head west, down the stairs instead. gets ganked by thief ambush.

    BAD PATHFINDING. BAD.

  • IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
    edited March 2015
    deltago said:

    Ichthyic said:


    not. hard.

    Great. Start scripting. Looking forward to your Pathfinding mod.

    OR

    Enjoy the scenery and use waypoints.

    OR

    Ctrl J
    you need to read my comment more carefully.

    especially the part about people who mod this game, LIKE ME, not having access to that level of the engine code, or believe me, I WOULD have modded it years ago.

    also, waypoints do not stop party members from choosing different routes to get to the waypoints.

    same exact issues apply.

    so, thanks but, you don't know what you're talking about, obviously.

  • IchthyicIchthyic Member Posts: 89
    "Do you not understand WHY you do not have access to that level of the engine?"

    from the person who previously said:

    "Great. Start scripting. Looking forward to your Pathfinding mod."

    I find this new statement of yours quite laughable.

    "And you do know how to use way points right?"

    you do know that waypoints do nothing when characters bump into each other and decide to go off on a different route anyway, right? evidently you either are being deliberately obtuse, or just trolling.

    "Is it because Beamdog doesn't full knowledge of the game engine code that they spent rewriting entirely? Nope."

    so, you know this... how? you don't.

    again, you really don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. look, you can stop contributing... because you're not. really. I plan to ignore any further "contributions" from you in this thread.

This discussion has been closed.

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