How to delevel character/distribute points once again?

FTR

Hello,

So I played for a while, but once I learned mechanics a little bit (I am newbie), I am really unhappy with my decisions regarding lvling up my characters.

I know it's impossible to change their specializations etc. in game, so I am trying to find other way. I am using EE Keeper, but the thing is, I don't wanna make overpowered character with tons of free bonuses. I wanna completly earse all bonuses that were given upon last few levels and distribute it all once again without loosing my progress.

Starting all over again is not an option, I tried and became bored within first 10 minutes, I really don't wanna explore all those areas again that I just explored 2 days ago and complete a lot of quests just to fix my character(s)..

I wanna completly change Imoen, Jaheira and Coran. My main character is just fine.

Side question: What's typical level at which you can meet Coran? Another thing I didn't know is that if I meet npcs too late, they will distribute points on their own, and I wasn't in hurry..

So please, help.

Heindrich

I am unaware of any means to "de-level" somebody and automatically remove the bonuses they've already picked up.

However, each time your characters level up, you are gaining a set list of things:
1) hit points. (always)
2) lore. (always)
3) weapon proficiency (on intervals)
4) spell slots (for spellcasters)
5) thief skills (for rogues)

The stuff that you can "mess up" is 3) and 5)

It is pretty easy to figure out the total number of weapon proficiencies and thief skill points a character is supposed to have at a given level. The following link is very useful for that:
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php/Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts

So it's easier to just re-assign weapon proficiencies and thief skill points with EEkeeper than trying to de-level and re-level the character.

FTR

Thank you, that's info I needed. The one thing that bothers me that there is difference in THAC0 between lvl1 Imoen (20 THAC0) and my lvl7 Imoen (17 THAC0). Both completly naked and unbuffed so I have no idea where it comes from.

Morale is also different.

Heindrich

That's normal, if you look at the Thieves progression table, their base THAC0 improves to 17 at lv7.

Edit: Actually a lot of stuff improves automatically that I didn't list, like saving throws and number of attacks. You don't need to worry about anything that isn't variable or a choice when you level up. So basically that's just thief skills and weapon proficiency.

Tresset

@Troodon80 How hard would it be to upgrade keeper to do this?

Troodon80

Tresset said:

How hard would it be to upgrade keeper to do this?

It's something I've wanted to do, so there's the chance that it will happen. Automation, that is. A button to press which will calculate and/or find all the required values for levelling up; some text to show the number of thief skill points you have that are currently unassigned, show the THAC0, AC, saving throws, HP, etc. However, it would require Keeper scanning every table required for the processing of that information. Some tables point to other tables, and then to other tables from there. Some get information from 2DAs while others get information from IDS files. Some cross over information (i.e. kits), so multiple tables would then also need to be cross-referenced to find specific values. How hard would it be? Not particularly difficult—more time consuming than anything.

karnor00

Generally if I want to make big changes I reset the character to level 1, give them the amount of xp I want and then level up in game - e.g. changing Haer'Dalis in a recent game from a bard to a fighter/thief I used EE Keeper to remove all his abilities, set him to a level 1 fighter/thief, set appropriate proficiencies and thief skills then gave him the xp I wanted.

With this approach there's no need to worry about THACO or saving throws since these will correct themselves at each level up anyway. I just need to set the hitpoints correctly, but these are pretty easy to calculate.

A really nice thing for EE Keeper would be a reset to level 1 button. Which would then give the character the correct proficiency points/saving throws/abilities/etc for a level 1 of whatever class.

BelgarathMTH

I also use @karnor00's technique when I want to completely rebuild a character; however, the one thing I don't think it fixes is race changes. That is, if you started the character as an elf, and change it to human, it will still have elven racial bonuses against sleep and charm spells, illegally. The reverse is also true, I believe, that is, if you change from human to elf using Keeper, you won't get your racial bonuses.

I'm not sure if the saving throws adjust themselves with the appropriate racial bonuses or penalties as you relevel the character in game.

You still have to do a lot of manual adjusting in proficiencies and hit points. I usually adjust the hit points to 1 so that when they relevel in game, they will only have one extra hit point from the process. You also have to do some fiddling with kit abilities. The releveled character will get their new kit abilities, but will also still have their old ones unless you go into Keeper and manually erase them.

If you started as a barbarian or monk and then change it, I don't know how to erase the speed bonus. If you relevel into a barbarian or monk, I'm not sure if they get their speed bonus. If the character started as a barbarian and got high enough to get damage resistance, I don't know how to erase those bonuses after releveling.

Really, the whole process can get really messy. Sometimes, if I am dissatisfied with how my party is built, enough to want to be doing this, I find it easier to just start all over with a new game. But if it's a simple change that I want to make, and I mostly like where I am, I'll use the Keeper method.

Hocapontas

I was really hoping there was a way to de-level a character. My main one in BG2 and ToB is a lvl 41 Fighter/Mage and as soon as he lvled up to 41 all his spells became obsolete. The spells are still there but he can't use them at all. He may as well not be a Mage for all the use he's getting out of the spells. It's really frustrating, because the game LETS you lvl up that high. Suggestions? Or should I just delete my character and start over, forcefully lvling up?

jmerry

The game doesn't let you level-up that high, unless you have a mod that allows it without properly compensating for it - without mods, characters can only reach level 40, and that's only some single classes.
The game reads things like spell slots from a table, and if there's no row for level 41 ... you get zeros in everything instead. No spell slots for you.

There is no way to de-level in game. You can do it with a save-editing tool, but it's never a simple process.

BelgarathMTH wrote: »

... however, the one thing I don't think it fixes is race changes. That is, if you started the character as an elf, and change it to human, it will still have elven racial bonuses against sleep and charm spells, illegally.

Actually, that one's fine with being updated at any time. Elven resistance is actually handled from the spell's end, which means it detects the race of the target as it is right now and handles race changes cleanly. This doesn't matter in normal gameplay; even polymorph effects don't change your race.

Save bonuses for short races are only updated at level-up. So, if you're messing with one of those races, you might not get things right until the character gains a level.