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Edwin's Amulet o.O

SkieSkie Member Posts: 90
So... wait... in BG2EE he gets +2 spells/level just from him amulet? :open_mouth:
Isn't that overpowered? And, like, why? :open_mouth:
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Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    I think it always did something like that and the EE upgraded the description.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    *chuckles* That amulet is why Edwin is considered the strongest NPC companion in the entire game.

    As for the why... somebody once explained the lore reasoning for it, I only vaguely remember snippets of it, but I think it's something to do with Red Wizards in PnP having two schools of opposition or other such restrictions that were not implemented in the IE games, so Edwin gets all the boons of being a Red Wizard with only the downside of a normal specialist mage.

    Any PnP experts out there, please do correct me if I am wrong or offer a bit more clarity.
  • SkieSkie Member Posts: 90
    Tresset said:

    I think it always did something like that and the EE upgraded the description.

    I think it used to be only +1 in the original, and it's also just +1 in BG1EE.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Yes, Red Wizards are supposed to be super-specialists. They gain double bonuses, but also double penalties compared to a regular specialist wizard (two forbidden schools instead of one).

    However, Edwin's amulet does not in fact come with any penalties, so it simply adds a MASSIVE bonus making it the best wizard amulet in the game. It has always done that, as @Tresset said, the description is simply more clear now. The effect is unchanged from the original version.

    I suppose you could RP-explain it away after a fashion, saying that Edwin is simply a ridiculously talented and powerful wizard. Would make sense given that in ToB he reaches absurdly high levels, on par with some of the major PnP characters.
  • SkieSkie Member Posts: 90
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  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited March 2015
    Well, you can take solace in the fact that a 31st level Edwin would lose to a 31st level 'regular' mage, because the mage would have free body slot for Amulet of Power and would land a Timestop sooner :)

    And on a more serious note, Edwin is strong but not strong enough for me to look past his character and therefore he never finds a spot in my party. Stuff dies even without the constant attention of my mages, so he really doesn't have to have gazillion spellslots.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    As much as Edwin's Amulet is cheese, it is no comparison to Baeloth's ring.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Skie said:

    Tresset said:

    I think it always did something like that and the EE upgraded the description.

    I think it used to be only +1 in the original, and it's also just +1 in BG1EE.
    AFAIK, it gave +1 in BG1 and +2 in BG2, and wasn't changed for the EEs.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    @Tresset Baeloth certainly is the most cheesy character ever. I was so disappointed he was not playable in BG2.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Arunsun said:

    @Tresset Baeloth certainly is the most cheesy character ever. I was so disappointed he was not playable in BG2.

    I was so HAPPY he wasn't in BG2 :P The game is already too easy, no need for Mr. Op to make an entrance.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    @Lord_Tansheron Baeloth's passion for aliterations really makes him unique. I mean, he was really charismatic. Much more than Hexxat is whatsoever. And less useless than Hexxat as well.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    Arunsun said:

    @Lord_Tansheron Baeloth's passion for aliterations really makes him unique. I mean, he was really charismatic. Much more than Hexxat is whatsoever. And less useless than Hexxat as well.

    And Wilson.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Wilson is not so utterly useless, and even if he is not great, at least he does have interesting roleplaying possibilities (druid or beast master familiar, though having both a Beast master and Wilson in your team is some sort of super hardcore nightmare mode). Hexxat is just worthless (pure thief is shitty) and she's just like a cliché of the d4rk character from some 13yo fanboy writing his first fan fiction.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    Maybe they should have made her an assassin or something... Maybe I will do that next time I use her...
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Say what you will about Hexxat being bland, I don't find her bad at all, power-wise. Admittedly she'd be better if she started with sensible proficiencies, but her statline is pretty insane early-game, so I'll live. As it is, she may "only" be a vanilla thief, but she can still backstab, detect illusions, set traps, summon cannon fodder, and regenerate. Not to mention that she's immune to a number of nasty effects. I don't find her bad at all. Quite the opposite.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    More specifically she is immune to charm, panic, sleep, level drain, hold, poison, poison damage (for instance Cloudkill damage), fatigue, break morale, and disease.
  • BladesBlades Member Posts: 167
    edited March 2015
    Getting back to Edwin... His stats suck. The amulet gives him spells but the other NPCs get nice starting items. He isn't unbalanced. His armor class sucks with lack of Dex. He needs the extra spells. Especially if you don't want a full party.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited March 2015
    Armor class matters a lot less in his case since he starts with access to Mirror Image and can quickly get Stoneskin and Protection From Magical Weapons.

    Personally though I don't think his extra access to spells is that a big deal until access to Improved Alacrity. Before that point its merely a matter of being an extra convenience, but since you are rarely ever attacked for resting in the game it doesn't do all that much until you can cast multiple spells per round. Especially given all the items you encounter that grant you extra mage spells anyways.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    It's true. Spells slots, while really nice, aren't THAT overpowered. In fact, you could argue that Edwin isn't even the best mage anymore, since a Wild Mage essentially gets to add her lvl 1 spells to the pool, among other things.

    Still, the amulet remains the best caster amulet in the game ;) Too bad no one else can use it...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Extra spell slots have diminishing returns. You seldom expend all of your spells. But extra slots should not be underestimated, particularly Edwin's.

    Edwin's amulet gives extra slots for ALL levels. Compare Edwin to a Charname Conjurer. At level 14? He has 4 level 7 spells; Charname has 2. At level 16? He has 4 level 8 spells; Charname has 2. At level 18? He has 4 level 9 spells; Charname has 2. In fact, Edwin has more slots than a sorcerer much of the time.

    Also, extra lower-level spell slots also have some utility. They let you add in more situational spells, or toolkit spells, or escape options. The extra slots might not give you a whole lot of extra power, but they will give you a lot more versatility.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited March 2015
    elminster said:

    Armor class matters a lot less in his case since he starts with access to Mirror Image and can quickly get Stoneskin and Protection From Magical Weapons.

    Personally though I don't think his extra access to spells is that a big deal until access to Improved Alacrity. Before that point its merely a matter of being an extra convenience, but since you are rarely ever attacked for resting in the game it doesn't do all that much until you can cast multiple spells per round. Especially given all the items you encounter that grant you extra mage spells anyways.

    Gods, he does not have stoneskin in his book! He is skulking, plotting and scheming openly in a thieves guild known for backstabbers and assasins and he does not care to learn stoneskin! That would be the first spell I would learn, in his position, before scribing a power word:blind to my book, even. He truly has low wisdom.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    He's an arrogant SOB, no surprise he thinks it beneath him to adequately protect himself.
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    He's a RED wizard, not a granite/grey wizard. When he has adequately researched the sandstoneskin spell, you will know about it...
  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 229
    You can actually use EE Keeper to add the amulet to your mages, and it gives all the attendant bonuses. Wanted to test it out, and it works for both a sorcerer and mage. Pretty cool.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    @DregothofTyr sure, but you have to do it again if the character dies because you won't be able to reequip it ;)
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Lathlaer said:

    @DregothofTyr sure, but you have to do it again if the character dies because you won't be able to reequip it ;)

    Aren't such 'non dropable' items sorta permanent, they stuck with the character forever, even after death? Also, if it is your main character you don't need to worry about this, for obvious reasons. :)
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    Just edit the flags...
  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 229
    Can you do that with EE Keeper or do you need a different program?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    @DregothofTyr That would require NearInfinity.
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