Paw to hit enchantments

jesterdesu

What enchantments do the polymorphed forms have to their paw attacks? I've read that werewolf has 0 enchantment whilst the greater version gets +2 enchantment. How about the 2 bear forms and the wolf form?

Am I missing something in the character screen which tells me this? I've tried looking at it in all forms but other than the "to hit" (thac0) bonus from the extra strength these forms give, I cannot see anything which looks like it.

To clarify, I'm specifically asking what the enchantment level of the various paw attacks are so I know which monsters I can or cannot kill.

I would run tests by summoning shadows, stone golems etc but I cannot find a .cre list for the enhanced editions of bgee.

Cheers

Tresset

Far easier to just look these things up in NearInfinity. That's how I do it. I will make a list some time if I find the time... there are actually quite a few shapeshift weapons and it would take a bit more effort than I have in me right now to make a list.

elminster

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205238783

You can find some info here under "Druid Activable Abilities and Spells"

Both the greater werewolf and the werewolf are treated as though they have +2 weapons as far as determining what they can hit. However, that isn't the same as having a +2 enchantment (there are no damage and Thac0 bonuses involved here).

semiticgoddess

If you need weapons with higher enchantment values, you can always dispel the paws with Dispel Magic (or a Shocking Grasp spell via a sequencer if you're a shapeshifting mage) and equip an actual weapon instead. Dispel Magic, at least in vanilla, always removes shapeshifting weapons even if it fails to dispel your buffs, so you can actually get rid of the weapon without removing your buffs.

Some would call this cheating, but I think a werewolf could realistically wield a weapon, considering it has hands and fingers. A Mustard Jelly wielding a halberd, though, might be a bit less plausible.

elminster

Dispel magic should no longer work (as far as dispelling paws/claws goes) in BG2EE and IWDEE. I don't recall what its status is in BGEE to be honest (though I think it doesn't work there either).

semiticgoddess

Of all the things they had to implement in EE, why did they have to close exploits?

elminster

Its not an issue of it being an exploit its an issue of it being a bug.

semiticgoddess

Dispel Magic actually has separate effects specifying that it will remove all Shocking Grasp items, the Ghoul Touch item, the Harm item, etc., as well as the shapeshifting weapons.

I believe the original intent was not to maintain polymorph. Dispel Magic is specifically structured to get rid of those paws; it's not some accidental side effect. I believe the intent was for Dispel Magic to turn a polymorphed character back to natural form, and this required getting rid of the magical items.

jesterdesu

elminster said:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205238783

You can find some info here under "Druid Activable Abilities and Spells"

Both the greater werewolf and the werewolf are treated as though they have +2 weapons as far as determining what they can hit. However, that isn't the same as having a +2 enchantment (there are no damage and Thac0 bonuses involved here).

Thanks that helped a lot

SemiticgodbI think you make a fair point, but surely dispel should dispel the whole form or none of it?

semiticgoddess

@jesterdu: "Should" as in, does it make sense for it to work that way? Or "should" as in, does the vanilla game really do that?

Vanilla certainly works that way: it dispels the weapon but not the shapeshift. I don't think it makes much sense, but I've used the trick anyway, because it's useful. I'm usually more concerned with how the game can be played, rather than how the game should be played.

As for the other "should"... Definitely dispel either the whole form or none of it. I don't think it makes sense to dispel the werewolf form at all--that's not an enchantment; it's an innate ability--but it would make sense to dispel a wizard's Polymorph Self spell, both removing the magical item and returning the caster to natural form.

Problem is, Dispel Magic is a separate opcode from the one that removes magical items, so I'm not sure you'd be able to get them to always work together. The best solution would probably be to dispel neither.

jesterdesu

Should as in "should work that way", rather than "used to work that way".

Surely whether innate or spells, polymorhing oneself requires magic of some description, hence either would be vulnerable to a dispel.

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