A critical hit is always a hit, irrespective of either basic AC or modifiers to that. A natural 20 is always a critical hit, but some enemies in the game have proficiency benefits that make 19 a critical hit as well (and there's the odd piece of equipment that gives an improved critical range). There's also the critical hit HLA (some drow use that for instance), which ensures all attacks will hit.
A critical hit is always a hit, irrespective of either basic AC or modifiers to that. A natural 20 is always a critical hit, but some enemies in the game have proficiency benefits that make 19 a critical hit as well (and there's the odd piece of equipment that gives an improved critical range). There's also the critical hit HLA (some drow use that for instance), which ensures all attacks will hit.
Well there you go. Thank you for answering that. Still, it was a good thread though, wish I could remember the title it changed how I played quite a bit. Like I now wear studded leather with bracers AC3 because of the bonus, small but worth it. Thank you Grond0.
Swash is better than average but not close to FMT or blade in terms of survivability and utility. It's true swashes become essentially unhittable in melee once you get through the long slow slog to 3-4 million XP, but FMT or blade are essentially invulnerable throughout the entirety of BG2 whether or not they are hittable in melee.
Yeah, the big problem with Swash isn't so much the kit itself but the Thief class overall. Thieves simply get diminishing returns from leveling up later in the series in contrast to the other three class types: fighters, divine casters, arcane casters.
Part of this is the game design itself, especially BG2. The skill checks don't require a high investment of points. The thief skills themselves are binaries of success/failure as opposed to having further benefits from high point investments.
As such a multi or dual thief is always going to out-power a single class.
Swash is better than average but not close to FMT or blade in terms of survivability and utility. It's true swashes become essentially unhittable in melee once you get through the long slow slog to 3-4 million XP, but FMT or blade are essentially invulnerable throughout the entirety of BG2 whether or not they are hittable in melee.
Yeah, the big problem with Swash isn't so much the kit itself but the Thief class overall. Thieves simply get diminishing returns from leveling up later in the series in contrast to the other three class types: fighters, divine casters, arcane casters.
Part of this is the game design itself, especially BG2. The skill checks don't require a high investment of points. The thief skills themselves are binaries of success/failure as opposed to having further benefits from high point investments.
As such a multi or dual thief is always going to out-power a single class.
I'd agree a high level multi will be better than a high level single class (if both are the same race). However, there's a lot of the game to play before you get to that position. The higher levels of the single class, particularly in relation to skills and saving throws, give them significant benefits for much of the game - though those can of course be offset by things like better THAC0 or magical ability for the multi.
For a dual thief, I guess it depends what you mean by "out-power". I only play no-reload, so tend to think in those terms - and a single class would normally be better fitted than a dual for much, or even all, of the game. If you mean how quickly a dual could kill a given opponent though, then I agree they would usually be as good or better.
Swash is better than average but not close to FMT or blade in terms of survivability and utility. It's true swashes become essentially unhittable in melee once you get through the long slow slog to 3-4 million XP, but FMT or blade are essentially invulnerable throughout the entirety of BG2 whether or not they are hittable in melee.
Yeah, the big problem with Swash isn't so much the kit itself but the Thief class overall. Thieves simply get diminishing returns from leveling up later in the series in contrast to the other three class types: fighters, divine casters, arcane casters.
Part of this is the game design itself, especially BG2. The skill checks don't require a high investment of points. The thief skills themselves are binaries of success/failure as opposed to having further benefits from high point investments.
As such a multi or dual thief is always going to out-power a single class.
I'd agree a high level multi will be better than a high level single class (if both are the same race). However, there's a lot of the game to play before you get to that position. The higher levels of the single class, particularly in relation to skills and saving throws, give them significant benefits for much of the game - though those can of course be offset by things like better THAC0 or magical ability for the multi.
For a dual thief, I guess it depends what you mean by "out-power". I only play no-reload, so tend to think in those terms - and a single class would normally be better fitted than a dual for much, or even all, of the game. If you mean how quickly a dual could kill a given opponent though, then I agree they would usually be as good or better.
You're also thinking of solo play, I suspect. One of the reasons a dualed-thief works well, imo, is because of the lack of downtime. Again, you don't need a lot of levels to have sufficient pick locks and find traps. And five companions can carry you through the tough stretch.
Swash is better than average but not close to FMT or blade in terms of survivability and utility. It's true swashes become essentially unhittable in melee once you get through the long slow slog to 3-4 million XP, but FMT or blade are essentially invulnerable throughout the entirety of BG2 whether or not they are hittable in melee.
Yeah, the big problem with Swash isn't so much the kit itself but the Thief class overall. Thieves simply get diminishing returns from leveling up later in the series in contrast to the other three class types: fighters, divine casters, arcane casters.
Part of this is the game design itself, especially BG2. The skill checks don't require a high investment of points. The thief skills themselves are binaries of success/failure as opposed to having further benefits from high point investments.
As such a multi or dual thief is always going to out-power a single class.
I'd agree a high level multi will be better than a high level single class (if both are the same race). However, there's a lot of the game to play before you get to that position. The higher levels of the single class, particularly in relation to skills and saving throws, give them significant benefits for much of the game - though those can of course be offset by things like better THAC0 or magical ability for the multi.
For a dual thief, I guess it depends what you mean by "out-power". I only play no-reload, so tend to think in those terms - and a single class would normally be better fitted than a dual for much, or even all, of the game. If you mean how quickly a dual could kill a given opponent though, then I agree they would usually be as good or better.
You're also thinking of solo play, I suspect. One of the reasons a dualed-thief works well, imo, is because of the lack of downtime. Again, you don't need a lot of levels to have sufficient pick locks and find traps. And five companions can carry you through the tough stretch.
I was - I know I meant to say that originally, but (just like when playing the game) I can be a bit forgetful .
Comments
Well there you go.
Yeah, the big problem with Swash isn't so much the kit itself but the Thief class overall. Thieves simply get diminishing returns from leveling up later in the series in contrast to the other three class types: fighters, divine casters, arcane casters.
Part of this is the game design itself, especially BG2. The skill checks don't require a high investment of points. The thief skills themselves are binaries of success/failure as opposed to having further benefits from high point investments.
As such a multi or dual thief is always going to out-power a single class.
I'd agree a high level multi will be better than a high level single class (if both are the same race). However, there's a lot of the game to play before you get to that position. The higher levels of the single class, particularly in relation to skills and saving throws, give them significant benefits for much of the game - though those can of course be offset by things like better THAC0 or magical ability for the multi.
For a dual thief, I guess it depends what you mean by "out-power". I only play no-reload, so tend to think in those terms - and a single class would normally be better fitted than a dual for much, or even all, of the game. If you mean how quickly a dual could kill a given opponent though, then I agree they would usually be as good or better.
I'm pretty sure its a crit, and not technically an autohit, though crits don't miss unless blocked from applying.
*Edit* Oh look, a whole page I missed and my point was redundant. Whoops, sorry.
I'm pretty sure its a crit, and not technically an autohit, though crits don't miss unless blocked from applying.
@mlnevese or any sundry mod, could you delete this post? I don't know how it double posted.
You're also thinking of solo play, I suspect. One of the reasons a dualed-thief works well, imo, is because of the lack of downtime. Again, you don't need a lot of levels to have sufficient pick locks and find traps. And five companions can carry you through the tough stretch.
I was - I know I meant to say that originally, but (just like when playing the game) I can be a bit forgetful