In a world where dragons may lurk behind every corner, being prepared and fully rested is the ONLY reasonable thing to do, besides staying home and forgetting about that risky adventuring. Especially from a RP perspective.
The problem we are discussing is due to the fact that there is no repercussions to resting anytime anywhere in the game where as in real life it will bring all sorts of troubles. You may very well be ambushed by a dragon and your night watch guy gets hit by a surprise critical attack and die, while rest your party members are asleep and unprepared to fight, which means you were better off fighting a dragon without resting even if some of your spells are missing.
Knowing that resting doesn't bring any disadvantageous it would have in real life, abusing rests is not reasonable thing to do in RP perspective. If there is a 'sit and chill' button in the game that restores your HP to full and gives you a insane buffs, will you use it just because you can sit and chill in real life? Nope. Likewise, 'rest' button in the game doesn't fully represent consequences and effects of rest in real life or realistic fantasy life, making it rather a OP button that enables you to never, ever run out spells while adventuring. That would have been not feasible had it been a novel or any other medium.
I think we're creating an issue that is beyond the capability of the game to replicate. Of course, you'd set up camp as safely as possible, with rotating watches, etc.
There are so many things in BG2 that don't fit PnP or realistic standards that you can't take the appearance of things on the screen to be an accurate portrait of the in-game reality. What you see on screen is just a simplified representation.
No, your character isn't really standing in place and taking three swings every round. That's not how fighting works, and that's not what they're really doing. No, your character isn't really decked out in full armor right when he wakes up from an inn. No, Firkraag's lair is not a 10-round walk from Garren's house. No, there are more latrines in the game than you see onscreen. No, those peasants around the Slums aren't standing around 24/7; they go home and rest every night. No, not all Divination spells have the same incantation. No, a beer at the inn doesn't really cost as much gold as a longsword. No, Jaheira doesn't say "Nature's servant awaits" 50 times a day. No, not all drow chant the same battlecry, "The Drow rule supreme," in Common. No, that Shadow Thief isn't really carrying 100 gold pieces in his pockets. No, not every door from Amkethran to the Underdark is facing south.
And no, your party isn't really resting in the same place you press the Z button.
Well one thing that would be nice is if dungeons came with built in reactions to your attack. Right now, enemies wait where they are.
Take for example Firkraag's Dungeon.
You come in, find some scared orcs whom you slaughter. Come in, and there is an ambush of orcs. You then walk through the dungeon, with werewolves, vampires and whatnot waiting for you.
What I'd like to see is for the AI to have patrols. If the patrol sees you, it runs away to the nearest group of enemies. That group will either move to intercept your party, or will fall back to a more defensive location.
The AI patrols have 'x' number of routes that they randomly take at certain times. If you are resting and a patrol finds you, then it will retreat and bring back enemies to attack you.
The effect? It behooves you to find 'safe' places to rest. If you are resting in a room with a doorway that is a natural bottleneck, then it becomes easy upon waking up to block them and react to their attack. If you are foolish enough to rest in the open, then you are in for a clusterf*ck. Especially as some encounters would become quite hard. Such as a group of vampire rushing in on you.
Plus, with this system, dungeons wouldn't be stale. Push forward with all speed? Make sure you kill any patrol you find? You can overwhelm the dungeon before they can react. Don't pay attention? Be too slow in stopping patrols? Carelessly rest in unsafe areas? The dungeon is going to react to you.
I think we're creating an issue that is beyond the capability of the game to replicate. Of course, you'd set up camp as safely as possible, with rotating watches, etc.
I disagree. The game has a mechanic to interrupt resting in dangerous places. I think that assumes you *do* have a lookout. If your whole party was fast asleep and some monsters or thug find you, they could slit your throat and you'd never wake up. But if you have a lookout, he/she will see the monsters and rouse everyone from sleep to defend themselves, maybe after only a few hours of sleep.
Which is exactly what happens in the game
technically you are not disagreeing with me . I'm fine with monsters and foes attacking me in my sleep. I actually love that part. If the rest success that's good, if not then I continue playing without having rested.
I generally try and restrict my resting based on whether it would be realistic to rest in the given situation.
For example Watchers Keep has stood for a long time. And even though the spells protecting it are slowly unravelling, there's no suggestion that they are going to fall apart in the immediate future. Therefore I have no problems resting while working my way through this dungeon.
In the underdark however, there is a mindflayer capture at one point. And there is an escape attempt and desperate attempt to flee before the mindflayers can recapture you. Settling down for an 8 hour nap while this is going on is wildly unrealistic so I wouldn't allow myself to rest here.
Obviously when I allow myself to rest is therefore a fairly subjective test.
Yes but for that very reason, resting around the corner from that dragon is completely UNreasonable.
That's true, but in that case you have only two options: A. traveling back to the town after every encounter to spend a night in the Inn of Safety. B. risk going forwards, knowing that your lack of preparedness may very easily result in death.
Neither of these choices is really rational. The main point is that the very notion of needing a 8-hour-rest after each battle is contingent on the very unrealistic feature of having to re-memorize spells. If the base condition is cheesy, than any solution will also turn out to be cheesy.
The game tries to make resting in dangerous places less suitable by introducing random attacks, but those only serve as annoyances. Is it realistic that you get attacked by a group of giant spiders while standing around in a dark cave? It is. Does it make the game more fun? Nope. Every time you have to reload or need to engage in a boring, unwanted fight the general fun-factor drops by 1 point.
Comments
Knowing that resting doesn't bring any disadvantageous it would have in real life, abusing rests is not reasonable thing to do in RP perspective. If there is a 'sit and chill' button in the game that restores your HP to full and gives you a insane buffs, will you use it just because you can sit and chill in real life? Nope. Likewise, 'rest' button in the game doesn't fully represent consequences and effects of rest in real life or realistic fantasy life, making it rather a OP button that enables you to never, ever run out spells while adventuring. That would have been not feasible had it been a novel or any other medium.
No, your character isn't really standing in place and taking three swings every round. That's not how fighting works, and that's not what they're really doing. No, your character isn't really decked out in full armor right when he wakes up from an inn. No, Firkraag's lair is not a 10-round walk from Garren's house. No, there are more latrines in the game than you see onscreen. No, those peasants around the Slums aren't standing around 24/7; they go home and rest every night. No, not all Divination spells have the same incantation. No, a beer at the inn doesn't really cost as much gold as a longsword. No, Jaheira doesn't say "Nature's servant awaits" 50 times a day. No, not all drow chant the same battlecry, "The Drow rule supreme," in Common. No, that Shadow Thief isn't really carrying 100 gold pieces in his pockets. No, not every door from Amkethran to the Underdark is facing south.
And no, your party isn't really resting in the same place you press the Z button.
Ex: In Firkraag's dungeon, there is an easily defendable area that the werewolves staked out. Allow resting there.
In the Umar Hills dungeon, there is the area with the light that banishes shadows. Only allow resting there.
In the Planar Sphere, the trapped knights can watch over you.
Pretty much any dungeon there should be areas where it makes sense to rest. Places that are easily defendable by a single person on watch.
Take for example Firkraag's Dungeon.
You come in, find some scared orcs whom you slaughter. Come in, and there is an ambush of orcs. You then walk through the dungeon, with werewolves, vampires and whatnot waiting for you.
What I'd like to see is for the AI to have patrols. If the patrol sees you, it runs away to the nearest group of enemies. That group will either move to intercept your party, or will fall back to a more defensive location.
The AI patrols have 'x' number of routes that they randomly take at certain times. If you are resting and a patrol finds you, then it will retreat and bring back enemies to attack you.
The effect? It behooves you to find 'safe' places to rest. If you are resting in a room with a doorway that is a natural bottleneck, then it becomes easy upon waking up to block them and react to their attack. If you are foolish enough to rest in the open, then you are in for a clusterf*ck. Especially as some encounters would become quite hard. Such as a group of vampire rushing in on you.
Plus, with this system, dungeons wouldn't be stale. Push forward with all speed? Make sure you kill any patrol you find? You can overwhelm the dungeon before they can react. Don't pay attention? Be too slow in stopping patrols? Carelessly rest in unsafe areas? The dungeon is going to react to you.
I'm fine with monsters and foes attacking me in my sleep. I actually love that part. If the rest success that's good, if not then I continue playing without having rested.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them. To die- to sleep-
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die- to sleep.
To sleep- perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub!
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
So, rest in order to give your characters a pause. Rest to stop the heartache. Rest in order to live, and not to die.
For example Watchers Keep has stood for a long time. And even though the spells protecting it are slowly unravelling, there's no suggestion that they are going to fall apart in the immediate future. Therefore I have no problems resting while working my way through this dungeon.
In the underdark however, there is a mindflayer capture at one point. And there is an escape attempt and desperate attempt to flee before the mindflayers can recapture you. Settling down for an 8 hour nap while this is going on is wildly unrealistic so I wouldn't allow myself to rest here.
Obviously when I allow myself to rest is therefore a fairly subjective test.
A. traveling back to the town after every encounter to spend a night in the Inn of Safety.
B. risk going forwards, knowing that your lack of preparedness may very easily result in death.
Neither of these choices is really rational. The main point is that the very notion of needing a 8-hour-rest after each battle is contingent on the very unrealistic feature of having to re-memorize spells. If the base condition is cheesy, than any solution will also turn out to be cheesy.
The game tries to make resting in dangerous places less suitable by introducing random attacks, but those only serve as annoyances. Is it realistic that you get attacked by a group of giant spiders while standing around in a dark cave? It is. Does it make the game more fun? Nope. Every time you have to reload or need to engage in a boring, unwanted fight the general fun-factor drops by 1 point.