Party composition - undecided about cleric

Common_Adventurer

Hey, I didn`t play bg2 for a while (like 6+ years) and now I`m trying Enchanced Edition. I have my party planned this way
1. Swashbuckler
2. Minsc
3. Jaheira
4. Yoshimo -> Imoen
5. Rasaad
6. Edwin

That was my original idea. It was based on keeping all three companions from bg1 (Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen) because they are closely related to the story. However I was told that missing cleric in bg2 is huge disadvantage and I will be missing a lot cool stuff. What do you think about it? Any hints I should know while playing druid over cleric?



My alternatives that include cleric in party are:

picking Viconia instead Jaheira. That breaks my idea keeping all 3 characters from irenicus dungeon in party. I don`t want to have them both in the same run.

Other idea is to drop Edwin (or less likely Rasaad) for Anomen/Aerie. Problem is that I really dislike both of those characters

3rd and my least favorite option is to star game over as cleric. I am not very far, I don`t even have Rasaad in my team yet.


So what do you think? Are there any alternatives to key cleric spells?

I have some free time now and I want spend some of it on this great game:) I don`t know when I will have time to play game again so I want to make this run as fun as possible

Hudzy

Or... some kind of crazy swashbuckler -> cleric dual class... maybe.

You'd be really limited in weapon choice though; clubs, slings and quarterstaves if I recall correctly.

Actually that would still probably require a restart. I can't really imagine BG2 without Chaotic Commands sadly. It becomes less important once you have decent saves though so it's doable.

Glidderdust

I've been trying to come up with different ways of coming up with a small party that excludes Anomen as well...lol.

The best way to do it, imo, is to look through all of the cleric only spells you'll be missing out on and determine if it's worth it or not. IMO, you can play without a cleric if you have a druid cast chaotic commands on people before a mage battle. That will help with annoying spells and not being about to cast remove paralysis or dispelling other mild effecting spells.

If you really want certain cleric spells, drop Rasaad and add Viconia.

The other way around it is to create a protagonist that can cast cleric spells. Cleric/ranger or fighter/cleric are both powerful.

Hudzy

I completely forgot druids can cast chaotic commands. So yeah, no need for clerics really. Items can replicate most of the buffs anyway.

elminster

Having recently played a party without a cleric in it the only thing I found I missed was access to lesser restoration.

booinyoureyes

Druids can handle your healing. Just make sure you have lesser restoration scrolls (your swashbuckler will get Use Any Item eventually anyway)

Another thing... Edwin and Minsc don't really get along, and considering how well Aerie and Minsc get along it would make an interesting RP and party balance decision to take her instead of Edwin. You will already have Imoen for magic depending on when you reach Spellhold.

Jarrakul

I pretty much agree with everything that's been said. Clerics aren't at all mandatory. Restoration can be accomplished with scrolls or at temples, and careful strategic planning will let you avoid being level drained most of the time anyway. Resurrection can be managed with a rod, or temples, or Jaheira's unique Harper's Call spell. You will be a little light on healing, which is an issue if you're trying to minimize resting. If you don't care how often you rest, healing isn't really that valuable. And by TOB you'll have so many potions it won't matter anyway.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Skatan

Firstly, have you rescued Imoen yet? If not, I'd advice to replace Yoshimo with Jan Jansen who is superior in every way; a better thief and spells to boot. Also, he makes a killer turnip stew. Invaluable while on the road.

I see you don't want to replace Raasad, but IMHO, he's the redundancy in your party setup. Your swashie (probably) tanks, Minsc tanks and Jaheira tanks and is the diviner. You don't really need to use that slot for a monk, so if you are to pick just one to swap, I'd swap out Rasaad. But if you really want to use him, there are other options.

Dualing to cleric is an option, considering ofc that you are human, have the req. stats, are not too high in level or are open for using Keeper to alter your charname.

Dualing to a mage would also take some heat of the need for a cleric since if you are a mage you can buff alot and thus have less need for healing etc. And since you have Edwin and Imoen, they can as well. Minsc has his rage and Jaheira has her buffs and Raasad eventually becomes immune to alot of effects, so all in all, you won't need a cleric to act as a cleric mid-fight as much with careful preparation and pre-buffing. I know you said you didn't really want to swap Edwin for Aerie, but if you dual to mage yourself, charname+Imoen will be enough in the arcane department, and then perhaps Aerie would indeed be a better compliment to the party. Or you could add in Quale via the mod, if you are open for such things.

Lastly, I have never done it myself, but I guess you could add in another charname cleric to the team via multiplayer. I think you can use a SP save in MP, but I have, as said, never tried it. I'm not sure I wuld recommend it though since even a poor choice of NPC adds alot of flavour to the gaming experience through their banter, personal quests and flaws (Yes flaws! If all char's had max stats, what fun would the game be?).

Have fun, whatever choice you make. I hope you thouroughly enjoy your playthrough.

EDIT: Btw, have you ever considered Cernd? Sure, he's the top runner for being the crappiest NPC in the game, but he IS a single classed druid with high WIS and some may prefer his personality to Anomen's. If used as a caster and kept out of harm's way, he could be the second diviner you need. Also, it would free up slots from Jaheira so she can focus more on being tanky with less summons and/or insects plauges etc.

So to summarize, you could go with:
1. Swashbuckler -> pure or dual to mage/cleric
2. Minsc and Boo
3. Jaheira
4. Jan Jensen (Yoshimo is IMHO the crappiest NPC) -> Imoen
5. Rasaad if swashie to cleric and Cernd if pure swashie or dual to mage
6. Edwin

This way you don't have to swap much and can keep plaything from where you are, not losing momentum.

Common_Adventurer

thank you all for the feedback


I am not feeling like dualing my swash

The reason I want to pick Rasaad is I always wanted to play monk in bg. However for my main characters I always play roguelike classes (and Swashbuckler is perfect here). I have no idea what Rasaad is like, what is his personality and what are his skills, strenghts, weaknesses etc. Btw what you mean that swashbuckler and monk have the same role?

I know nothing about dualclassing... and i have quite low wisdom at my main char. This most like won`t go well with cleric class.

I wanted to keep Edwin, because I really like the guy, and every good team should have a "black sheep"

The clerics in this game except Viconia really sux. Anomen looks perfect - warrior/cleric is great combination but his personality seems just awful. Aerie is really boring however she fits perfectly in my party composition...

And I want to keep Yoshimo for betrayal moment, when I played years ago I missed that

1. aerie over edwin
2. anomen over rasaad.
3. Starting over as warrior/cleric (least favorite)
4. Playing as it is - I wanted to not make too long rests to keep it looks natural. But I don`t think I`m tied to this idea.

I consider this playthrough as my "first" run so I want to make it cool. I`m choosing between 1st and 4th option now. Summarizing I would be mostly missing restoration spells and some buffs? (important ones?)

I don`t like Cernd, and to be honest I can`t really say why... just dislike him:) Also I don`t want to make new character using multiplayer.


Thanks again for all your advices, I am still undecided but you made a lot things more clear to me

Qwazi

Taking all that in I'd say stick with option 4. Jaheira will be fine to manage nearly all your clerical duties.

Skatan

Common_Adventurer said:

And I want to keep Yoshimo for betrayal moment, when I played years ago I missed that

Then my final 2 cents in this discussion is that you can (with the help of a little metagaming ) swap out any one of your party just before you venture out to get Imoen back, so just put Yoshi in the party before going there.

Personally I would choose option 2 of the above 4.

I'm a curious bastard, so please update the thread when you make the decision so I will know what you chose!

Common_Adventurer

Now I think I stick with option 4 but I still consider option 2 as possible.

As I said before I have no idea whether I will like Rasaad or not. I wanted to recruit him only because his a Monk. I probably go straight to Trademeet and check him out and then I will decide to keep him or choose Anomen instead.

Is that true that monks are as fun as many people says?

Skatan

Common_Adventurer said:

Now I think I stick with option 4 but I still consider option 2 as possible.

As I said before I have no idea whether I will like Rasaad or not. I wanted to recruit him only because his a Monk. I probably go straight to Trademeet and check him out and then I will decide to keep him or choose Anomen instead.

Is that true that monks are as fun as many people says?

It doesn't take many hours in the game until you have 100 health potions stacked in your inventory. Gulp a few before resting to avoid resting for an unrealistic amount of days.
EDIT 1: I know it's prolly quite unrealistic to wander around with 100 potions in your quickslot as well, but nevermind that

A monk is a melee fighter and are as funny as melee fighters can be. Personally I like monks more in theory than in practice, meaning I like the idea of the monk but actually playing one is never as fun as playing a char with more abilities and spells, especieally spells since I'm a nutter for those. Sure, monks in general ,and Rasaad more specifically, are awesome when leveled up a bit (14+ IRRC) but for me they just don't add enough active abilitites. Passive abilitites are great, but they aren't very "fun". If you like to set loose a char and let it whack at things uncontrolled, then monks, palas and the likes are amazing. If you like more micro-management, then F/M's etc are "funnier".
EDIT: ..or F-C as in Anomen's case, since there are no F/M NPC's in BG.

Give him a go though, the worst thing that can happen is that you try him, decide you don't like him, and swap him for someone else. It's not the end of the run and most chars you swap in instead (like Anomen) will seamlessly blend into the group without affecting your playthough.

Yannir

@Common_Adventurer Minsc and Edwin still won't get along. I think Minsc considers Edwin as an evil of the highest order, since he's a Red Wizard of Thay. In other words, the arch enemy of everyone in Rashemen. I think you can EEKeeper this away, if you roll like that. But I wouldn't.

I would actually drop Minsc rather than Edwin but that's just me.. Maybe pick up Anomen for his slot?

Common_Adventurer

I am currently plaing with Anomen and droping Rasaad. Maybe i will change my mind in the future:) Anomen`s voice is not that annoying like he was in my native language version (plaing eng currently)

Btw what weapons you preffer for Jaheira? I wanted to play Scimitars+Shields, but I`m not sure if that is the best idea.

Jarrakul

I usually either build Jaheira for dual scimitars (which takes forever, but you can just have her use a shield in the meantime) or spears then staves. This has a lot to do which specific magic weapons, though.

Common_Adventurer

I read somewhere in the internet that good choice is to build jaheira with clubs and hill giant belt(this belt which gives 19 str, not sure if I it`s correct name of that item:P). I hearD there is strong club somewhere in Trademeet. Is that correct?

joluv

Common_Adventurer said:

I read somewhere in the internet that good choice is to build jaheira with clubs and hill giant belt(this belt which gives 19 str, not sure if I it`s correct name of that item:P). I hearD there is strong club somewhere in Trademeet. Is that correct?

There are multiple strength belts, but yeah, the one that gives strength 19 is the Belt of Hill Giant Strength. Blackblood is a nice club that is for sale in Trademeet once the merchants return. There's also a decent club called Gnasher that can be found in the Druid Grove.

lunar

You can't go wrong with club+shield. Shield of harmony or the fortress shield are best bets and are easy to acquire. Unlike bg1, there are decent magical clubs in bg2 as well.
I never dual wield with J, I see her more of a durable tank instead of dps. With a full plate, ring of prot+2 from Aran Linvail, +2 amulet from wild magi camp, fortress shield, and cloak of sewers, she can get ac of -10 or so very easily:very useful throughout SoA. Equip girdle of bluntness and trolls can not touch her without a critical, and with her iron skins, she is very durable. (Yeah I hate trolls they surrounded and 'trolled' my wild mage in the troll mound, tearing him apart. Itwas carelesness on my part, though.) Gulp a potion of absorbtion and she will have +10 more ac vs crushing, and then even big scary golems will have a hard time hurting her.

Skatan

Just give her the best melee weapon you find, whether it's a club, a scimitar or a qstaff, and pair it with a shield until you get the end-game clubs. Use sling+shield when preferred.

You can give her the staff mace +2. It's one of the best of the easy accessable +2 weapons she can use, better than a scimitar +1 since it's blunt dmg (and +2, obviously ).

joluv

I vote for Belm.

JuliusBorisov

Common_Adventurer said:

Btw what weapons you preffer for Jaheira?

Although a lot of people use Jaheira as a tank with a shield or give her Belm as the second weapon and thus use a two-weapon fighting style, I now prefer to equip her with a staff/spear so that she uses a two-handed weapon.

There're lots of excellent battle staffs in both games and later in BG2 you'll get superb spears. This weapon is usually overlooked and used rarely by anyone else, so for Jaheira as a fighter/druid it can be a good choice. Ironskins will serve as you shield nicely.

Spear +3, Impaler that implies 1D6 +3, +10 piercing damage, Spear of Withering +4 for enemies who need a +4 weapon and later Ixil's Spike.

lunar

Skatan said:

You can give her the staff mace +2. It's one of the best of the easy accessable +2 weapons she can use, better than a scimitar +1 since it's blunt dmg (and +2, obviously ).

Oh yeah, staff mace+2 is AMAZING you can buy it from the moment you are out of Irenicus Dungeon and it has a very decent reach, and damage, and enchantment level, and is a one-handed weapon too! What more you can ask for in the beginning of the game?

elminster

lunar said:

Skatan said:

You can give her the staff mace +2. It's one of the best of the easy accessable +2 weapons she can use, better than a scimitar +1 since it's blunt dmg (and +2, obviously ).

Oh yeah, staff mace+2 is AMAZING you can buy it from the moment you are out of Irenicus Dungeon and it has a very decent reach, and damage, and enchantment level, and is a one-handed weapon too! What more you can ask for in the beginning of the game?

A lightsaber!

joluv

Do staff maces exist in PnP? Is there an explanation out there for how it works, or what it looks like for someone to wield one?

Drueric

My party usually consists of

1. (Me) Orc Fighter(just love the 19 str, then I can give the str items to others...)
2. Minsc - There really is no other NPC fighter better than him in SoA
3. Anomen - I find him to be really powerful later on with the crom.
4. Jahiera -- you NEED a druid and she is the best unless you roll a druid yourself.
5. Viconia --> Imoen. Viconia does very well as a backline healer+sling with her high dex. = AC
6. Jan Janson - hes the best mage out of the possible others, plus hes kinda funny.

I use viconia's slot to swap out other characters to do their quests. I have considered using mazzy for her really powerful bow action, but she replaces someone with spells, and you need lots of spell casters in this game.

I know you cant use 9th spells unless you get edwinn or dual class yourself to a mage, which I have done before, but you dont really need them to beat the game. I mean, you take down 9th level spell casting mages throughout the whole game.

I pick jan because he doesnt have to rely on magic to still be useful in fights that dont need it.

Arunsun

Actually once you installed ToB you can use level 9 spells with any mage once you reach level 18. It is just that other mages cannot learn them, but you simply have to use some potion of genius, and learn all your spells. This works as well if you want to learn more spells than the limit due to intelligence

lunar

joluv said:

Do staff maces exist in PnP? Is there an explanation out there for how it works, or what it looks like for someone to wield one?

Indeed they do. Though they are a bit different:

''This clerical weapon appears to be a normal wooden staff of the type used when trekking in the wilderness. This item is typically made of bronzewood, reinforced by heavy bands and tips of iron. It gives off a very faint aura of alteration magic. Upon command, the staff-mace takes on one of three forms, as desired by the possessor.
Quarterstaff: quarterstaff +3, iron-shod
Great Mace: footman's mace +1, iron
Mace: horseman's mace +2, iron''

joluv

@lunar: Oh, so they're only usable by characters who could use normal versions of each of their forms? That would make more sense.

lunar

joluv said:

@lunar: Oh, so they're only usable by characters who could use normal versions of each of their forms? That would make more sense.

@joluv I guess so. The description is not detailed, but I guess it is a 3 in 1 versatile weapon, a mage can use it as a staff+3, a soldier on foot can wield as footman's mace, and a paladin on his steed can bash skulls with the horseman's mace.