Party of 4 ideas & Jaheira question

Crimefighter

Hi all,

After playing the original BG2 a lot when it came out, I have recently picked up the EE and am going to play through again. I finished SoA back in the day, but never ToB, so I don't know much about the higher level gameplay.

I used to like playing 4 person parties for the faster leveling and less micromanagement than a party of 6, without sacrificing all of the banter and NPC quests.

Unfortunately it does limit my PC class choices somewhat, particularly on the evil side of things. I also have some other gameplay constraints which leave me with a few questions.

I intend to play through good first, with Jaheira, Imoen, and Minsc. Which brings me to my first question, whats the best way to use Jaheira? I can't quite figure out if she is best in the backline slinging spells and rocks (presumably using sling of everrard), or in the front, either dual wielding Blackblood+Belm, or some kind of Sword & Board setup, or even a quarterstaff/Spear.

I really like her as an NPC because it seems like she can fill any number of roles, including covering my healing needs so I don't need to pick up that Anomen fool.

How do you guys employ Jaheira?

For my good run through I would like to use a F/M or Specialist Mage (either conjurer or illusionist). Haven't decided yet, I enjoy both playstyles. I like PC classes that are very engaging, and contribute a lot to the group.

If I chose a specialist Mage, would my character be competing too much for Mage equipment with Imoen? Do I even need 2 full time Arcane casters? My previous memories of playing suggest that I don't, but I have never touched ToB so I am not certain.

Concerning my "Evil" playthrough, my favorite NPCs are Korgan, Viconia, and Edwin. Actually mainly Korgan, love that psychotic Dwarf. Unfortunately that would mean my PC would have to be some kind of thief, and I'm not a huge fan of backstabbing gameplay style, so it seems like maybe Swashbuckler could be my best option there? I have never played a Swashbuckler so I am not sure how actually engaging they are to play. Happy to consider other ideas for a PC class choice here.

I guess alternatively I could drop Edwin, and use Jan for Arcane/Thief duties. That would give me a lot more flexibility on PC choice. Has anyone taken Jan to ToB levels? Is he useful there?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Southpaw

Hi there...
I usually like to play 4, max 5 -character parties. Especially because of the faster level progression and less micro-management. i actually quite do micro-manage my 4 bloodthirsty minions which is much more effective than just clicking on "attack" for a party of 6.

So your answers... Jaheira - I don't particularly like her and find her annoying, but she is a very good composite character, that can be used as a front-line fighter and a healer. And in parties of 4, you need to cover all important roles (Fighting/tanking, magics, healing/buffing, thieving - which usually means having a Fighter-type, a Mage, a Cleric and a Thief. And if possible - dual/multiclasses)
You're right. Anomen is a fool. (Somehow, I tend to have Viconia with me 95% of the time, regardless of the alignment of the rest of the group. Once or twice, I took Cernd.)

Swashbuckler + Korgan + Viconia + Edwin is actually a very killer combo (Swashie + Kagain + Edwin + Vicky in BGEE). Just take the Swashie and play him as a fighter who can pick locks. Occasionally lay down a trap. Easy.

lunar

Jaheira is a tank. With club+shield.

Get her a full plate mail, a ring of protection+2, that +2 amulet from wild mage camp, cloak of sewers, fortress shield or any other heavily enchanted shield. She will sit with an ac around -10, and get a belt of crushing/slashing/missile plus boots of avoidance, for extra ac against the threats. With her ironskins up, most foes in SoA, even golems, will have a hard time hitting her. Gulp a potion of absorbtion for extra +10 ac vs crushing and watch as even mighty golems struggle to touch her. She can also tank numerous trolls. And other mid level melee critters with safe.

For weapons, staff mace+2 sold by Ribald is cheap, available the moment you are out of Irenicus's dungeon, has god damage, enchantment, range, everything. Ater gnasher+2, and blackblood+3 are excellent picks. For the rare enemy that requires +4 to hit, she can drop her shield to employ Staff of Ryn.

DregothofTyr

Unfortunately, the +2 amulet from the wild mage camp has been patched to not stack with other protection items, so she can't have both. However, she could do the +2 amulet, ring of gaxx and ring of earth control for a total of +5 AC. I also like to have Jaheira use Belm, either with a shield or dual wielding with gnasher. Jaheira is a very strong and versatile character, my only gripe with her is that you can't kick her out of your party at will once you've done her quest (which I always do because it lets you get the only ring of wizardry in the game if you're into a mage - the other spells ring is a ring of acuity).

lunar

DregothofTyr said:

Unfortunately, the +2 amulet from the wild mage camp has been patched to not stack with other protection items, so she can't have both. However, she could do the +2 amulet, ring of gaxx and ring of earth control for a total of +5 AC. I also like to have Jaheira use Belm, either with a shield or dual wielding with gnasher. Jaheira is a very strong and versatile character, my only gripe with her is that you can't kick her out of your party at will once you've done her quest (which I always do because it lets you get the only ring of wizardry in the game if you're into a mage - the other spells ring is a ring of acuity).

Oh really? I did not know that. IIRC, In my current game I can combine the amulet with other magica protection jusy fine. I know it feels cheesy, but..

Arunsun

Jaheira should get a much better necklace. I won't spoil anything else though.

lunar

Arunsun said:

Jaheira should get a much better necklace. I won't spoil anything else though.

Oh yes, that necklace is pretty good, actually really good, considering the bonus to save vs spells is HUGEly more important than ac in ToB. But by the time you get to it, an amulet+2 is not bad. Anything that improves ac and saves are very good for a tank.

Skatan

Regarding Jaheira:
Why choose? Use her with slings when needed, sling of everard or whatever you can get your hands on, then switch to melee when enemies are closer. She can easily tank for you, next to Minsc. Since Minsc and Imoen don't need strenght, give her the belt for 19 STR if you don't need it yourself and both her sling and her melee will do decent damage. As said above, give her the best armor you have (you'll be swimming in full plates and with w STR belt she can wear it all), a fortress shield or the best shield you got, and give her staff mace from the get-go. Upgrade to Belm once aquired but keep her sword and board, IMHO. To summarize, just do what @lunar said

Regarding the evil run:
Why choose? Go swashie to mage if you don't mind dualing. You can play swashie as singleclass and become really good as well of course. You'll have a ridiculous abundance of skill points though, so dualing after reaching your skill point goal is not a bad idea. It doesn't have to be Mage of course, you can dual to fighter, but there are arguments both pro and against that, or cleric. Personally I would choose mage, but then again, I'm a sucker for arcane and want at least two arcane users in my party at all times. Even if Edwin has a buttload of spell slots he can still only cast one spell per round normally.

Yannir

I would pick up a Fighter/Thief multiclass for the evil run. But that's just me. This way you get the High Level Abilities from both classes. Honestly, you don't NEED 2 arcane casters. It is an option though, and a good one too. You could go Mage/Thief multiclass as well. Or start out with an assassin, then dual to a mage. Shooting poisoned arrows with Bow of Gesen under a PfMW is pretty effective.

I'll leave Jaheira-related advice to others more familiar with her.

lunar

Skatan said:

Regarding Jaheira:
Why choose? Use her with slings when needed, sling of everard or whatever you can get your hands on, then switch to melee when enemies are closer. She can easily tank for you, next to Minsc. Since Minsc and Imoen don't need strenght, give her the belt for 19 STR if you don't need it yourself and both her sling and her melee will do decent damage. As said above, give her the best armor you have (you'll be swimming in full plates and with w STR belt she can wear it all), a fortress shield or the best shield you got, and give her staff mace from the get-go. Upgrade to Belm once aquired but keep her sword and board, IMHO. To summarize, just do what @lunar said

Just a note, Jaheira has 15 str which, while not giving any bonuses in melee, allows her to wear any full plate mail and equip any tower shield in the game. She does not need a strength belt to wear the heaviest stuff, unlike other romancable cleric girls Viconia and Aerie. (Though Aerie gets a freepass as you won't want her to equip plate mails anyway. She can't use bigger shields without a strength boost though!)

Arunsun

I usually give Viconia Mauler's arm though. It s really nice on her before you get more STR gear

Skatan

lunar said:

Just a note, Jaheira has 15 str which, while not giving any bonuses in melee, allows her to wear any full plate mail and equip any tower shield in the game. She does not need a strength belt to wear the heaviest stuff, unlike other romancable cleric girls Viconia and Aerie. (Though Aerie gets a freepass as you won't want her to equip plate mails anyway. She can't use bigger shields without a strength boost though!)

True, my choice of words were not perfect. I only meant that with fullplate, towershield etc and 15 STR, it doesn't leave much room for stacking items in the inventory, especially if you only use 4 chars. With 19 STR, you can stack your whole inventory full without encumberance. I like convenience.

JuliusBorisov

lunar said:

Aerie can't use bigger shields without a strength boost though!)

I'd like to mention that Aerie and Viconia can cast a STR-enhancing spell, equip a desired item, and this item (a shield for Aerie, a plate armour for Vikky) will be put on even after the effect of the spell ends. Just don't take it off and you'll be fine.

Crimefighter

Thanks all for the responses. Plenty of food for thought

After giving it some more thought, I am leaning towards a Sorceror PC with Minsc/Jaheira/Imoen on a "good" playthrough, and a F/M PC with Korgan, Viconia, and Imoen again for an Evil playthrough.

I am aware I am missing out on Edwin, but he is so powerful I don't think I am going to need him. Additionally, Imoen covers 2 roles on her own and won't leave my party even if I am evil (or so I have read). Coupled with my F/M spellcasting I should have loads of arcane power

James_M

Jaheira, Imoen, and Minsc are the core of my play throughs as well! I buy her the Sling of Seeking to use until Level 12. I put her on the front line when she hits Fighter 12, giving her pips in Two Weapon Style at L9 and L12. Use Iron Skins, no shield needed, wield Blackblood+3 and Gnasher+2, give Cloak of Unerring and Girdle of STR 19 -> THAC0 9/2/5 (3). Wear Full Plate, Dusty Rose Ioun stone and the Cloak of the Sewers -> AC-6. Blackblood+3 and Gnasher+2 is what I use, but Belm instead of Gnasher would be a close call. With your good party, you may need to use her on the frontline from the get-go.
In ToB Jaheira uses Scimitars: Spectral Brand. Have fun...

Klorox

FYI, the powergamers choice would be to give Jaheira Belm in the offhand until she gets GWW. The extra attack transfers to her more powerful main hand weapon

biffyclanger

Thing about Jaheira is that her wisdom is not high enough to be spamming spells thus better give her the str belt and let her duel wield. Being a druid she can tank with iron skins so AC is less relevant. There are great clubs and scimitars (offhand) you can get pretty much as soon as leaving Irenicus dungeon so its like the game wants you to gear her this way. In a pinch she can fire off that insect spell and summon fire elemental as support. Minsc is great but not nearly as flexible.

I'd pick Haer'Dalis as an off tank support disabler/buffer. With the right spells and his faster level progression he can be pretty much untouchable by mid chapter 2. Mirror image, blur, spirit armor, stone skin will make him untouchable by regular foes. If you give him pfmw and SI abjuration he can tank dragons without losing single HP. Late game with thief HLA he gets ridiculously powerful. Time trap and offensive spin and hack away will always be a hit. Oh and there is always tensor's and improved haste for and spike traps, UAI for total overkill .

If your PC is and fighter/mage or Kensai->mage then this is the most optimal 4 (including Imoen).
you have
2.5 fighters (Haer'Dalis can be more than .5 fighter if you micro him correctly)
1.5 thief (Imoen for finding traps n locks, Haer'Dalis for pickpocketing and Thief HLA)
2 wizard
1 Druid (who need clerics when you can cast restoration from scroll plus heal from Res wand?)

so thats 7 for the price of 4. Pretty decent. Pre-nerf Ranger/Cleric PC would also work well.

biffyclanger

If only Jaheira was pre-nerf ranger/cleric it would be perfect.

gorgonzola

@biffyclanger,
this discussion was inactive and the last comment older then half year.
Usually is better to avoid that topic resurrections, unless there is a good reason to do it.
Since you has joined the board very recently (me too) it has not happened anything serious, and in other boards I have seen topics 10 years old resurrected. But in the future surfing of the old discussions is always good to resurrect only if there is something really relevant.

Dharius

I'm using Jaheira now in a party of four, and gave her a second pip in Staves. With the Staff +3 , Staff Mace or Staff Spear (all available from Athlkatla merchants) she's very powerful. She's good with a sling too. Beyond that I don't think it really matters...other weapons wouldn't do much more damage.

And personally I don't mind if you resurrect a post. I'm democratic like that

gorgonzola

Dharius said:

And personally I don't mind if you resurrect a post. I'm democratic like that

I agree whith you, but surfing the net I found many comments from people new to that board giving suggestions to other people inactive from years, and in a way that was evident that they was not aware of the thing. So when I saw the resurrection from a member whith few comments, and after a check of when he joined us, I posted my comment.
Being totally ignorant about biffyclanger's eventual knowledge of netiquette or about his possible experience from being active in other boards. I tried to be as much polite as my bad knowledge of english language, I had no intention to be pedantic or to judge what he did. If I didn't succeed and my comment was pedantic or less then friendly to a new member of this community I apologize.

biffyclanger

Hey wow I didn't realize there is a problem. I am running a similar party right now and I didn't want to start a new post to talk about it. Whats the harm? Is that not a good enough reason?

gorgonzola

No problem, no harm, good enough reason, don't worry.