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Why do Poor Enemies have Expensive Weapons? *Great Weapon Videos*

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  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    Onestep said:

    Really, it's the statistical differences that get me. For instance, 10 or so Amnish guards could walk all over 100 members of the Flaming Fist without even trying.

    That's kind of crazy. All Amn would have needed to do to win their war with BG would be to march their supermen right into the Palace.

    True eh? I suppose that Amn trains their soldiers very well and equips them efficiently and sufficiently; nothing more. As for the Flaming Fist of the City of Baldur's Gate it seems that they have a case of possessing great combat gear, but having poorly trained soldiers to fight with it.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    It's not that complicated of a question, really. Where did some random bandit get the money for a pricy longsword? Well, he must have sold his armor to buy the sword. A suit of plate mail +1 is more than worth a measly longsword.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Onestep said:

    Really, it's the statistical differences that get me. For instance, 10 or so Amnish guards could walk all over 100 members of the Flaming Fist without even trying.

    That's kind of crazy. All Amn would have needed to do to win their war with BG would be to march their supermen right into the Palace.

    The Amn soldiers in BG1 are about on par with the flaming fist. If BG2 was set in Baldurs Gate, then the flaming fist would be supermen too. It is balance more than actual stats.
    WithinAmnesia
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Athkatla is a bigger city I think, and Amn is a pretty large, powerful nation, so they probably have more higher level soldiers.

    That said, those endlessly spawning Fist hunter/killer groups were REALLY NASTY, and decent level. And they spawn endlessly. I'd hate to fight an army of them!
    WithinAmnesia
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    DreadKhan said:

    Athkatla is a bigger city I think, and Amn is a pretty large, powerful nation, so they probably have more higher level soldiers.

    Actually, Baldur's Gate is the 3rd largest city on the Sword Coast. Right after Waterdeep and Calimport.

    Amn is a large and powerful nation but Athkatla itself is not that large. Amn in BG2 is missing some large areas of the nation. For example, Trademeet is portrayed smaller than it is.
    WithinAmnesia
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    Grum said:

    Onestep said:

    Really, it's the statistical differences that get me. For instance, 10 or so Amnish guards could walk all over 100 members of the Flaming Fist without even trying.

    That's kind of crazy. All Amn would have needed to do to win their war with BG would be to march their supermen right into the Palace.

    The Amn soldiers in BG1 are about on par with the flaming fist. If BG2 was set in Baldurs Gate, then the flaming fist would be supermen too. It is balance more than actual stats.
    Same thing for weapons, I guess. If most all enemies went around waving nothing but wooden clubs, they'd be much less dangerous.

    Also, the bandits do have the backing of the Iron Throne, so it makes sense that they're armed properly.
    WithinAmnesiaGrum
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Just checked, in 3.0 Athkatla has 118k, BG has 42k. Maybe there was a population boom in Amn?
    WithinAmnesia
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    DreadKhan said:

    Just checked, in 3.0 Athkatla has 118k, BG has 42k. Maybe there was a population boom in Amn?

    Maybe I just got the wrong picture.. :smile:
    WithinAmnesia
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    Forgotten Realms is a very high magic setting. Magic has basically replaced technologicsl progress so you shouldnt compare it to medieval times as Id imagine magic has made a lot of the processes easier. The prevalence of lots of super powerful magic weapons that never break would also lower the price of generic longswords.
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Mikey205 said:

    Forgotten Realms is a very high magic setting. Magic has basically replaced technologicsl progress so you shouldnt compare it to medieval times as Id imagine magic has made a lot of the processes easier. The prevalence of lots of super powerful magic weapons that never break would also lower the price of generic longswords.

    The game actually has a lot more magic weapons than there ought to be. +1 weapons are not that weird, since they are basically mastercrafted weapons. There ARE a lot of master smiths around, just look at all the dwarves. There's just way too many +2 and +3 weapons around.

    There's also way too many mages in BG and BG2 than there ought to be. The wizards you see in BG2 would represent the entire number of magic users in the nation, especially in Amn that frowns on magic. That scene where Irenicus slays a number of magic users is ludicrous, the Cowled Wizards would never use apprentices as an advance force, since people gifted in magic are so rare. There should have been guards and golems in the initial fight.
    WithinAmnesia
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Yannir, I don't think +1 weapons are "basically mastercrafted weapons", because they can bypass the lowest order of supernatural resistance, against, say, a vampire wolf. Part of the horror element of high fantasy and "monster" stories is that the stronger monsters are not fully of this world, that is, not able to be harmed or controlled through any mundane means or weapons. That's what makes them powerful and scary, to test the hero's courage and to evoke strong emotions in the audience.

    Obtaining the "magic weapon" that can hurt the monster is usually a major quest during the hero's journey, and isn't supposed to happen easily in a good story.

    This trope goes all the way back to vampires (vulnerable only to wooden stakes, fire, decapitation, and holy objects) and werewolves (vulnerable only to silver). In D&D, the stronger monsters can only be hurt by "magic", either through spells, or through supernatural charms infused into weapons.

    That's why, while it's interesting and fun to compare D&D technology and metallurgy to real world history, it can be kind of pointless to take it too far, because when we talk about D&D, we're talking about a fairy tale world where magic and supernatural creatures and forces are very real and commonly encountered. It's cliche to say it, but the "A Wizard Did It" trope actually makes a good point in the case of D&D magic weaponry.
    TuthWithinAmnesiaJuliusBorisov
  • NightRevanNightRevan Member Posts: 81
    bob_veng said:

    lunar said:

    I don't mind and I don't find it hard to believe. In our real world, take the example of terrorists that live in the mountains, they are neither very rich nor living in luxury. Yet they have the automatic rifles, grenades, explosives and rocket launchers. Things a normal citizen can hardly afford.

    a price of a mass-produced kalashnikov on the black market is many many times lower than what a longsword cost in the middle ages :smile:

    In at least the High Middle Ages sword costs vary quite allot depending on the type, quality and work put into it. A workable if not perfect analogy would be cars today, you can get a car that isn't that expensive that though heap of junk on the whole can still get you from a to b and does what you what a car to do for less or around a month's minimum wage equivalent salary to the other end of the spectrum in which you have cars for astronomical amounts of money that only the truly rich can think of buying and all those in between those two extreme polls.


    A similar case was with swords, though whether even they were ever as cheap as kalashikov's are in some parts of the world is tragically unlikely (why we always make things to kill others so relatively inexpensive while the things that save and heal are placed beyond their reach I will never know).

    In terms of the Roman army there is evidence of the long-term use from finds of arms and equipment, having shown signs of repair multiple times and found alongside somewhat later style armament, so I agree they were not as uniform in appearance is sometimes thought (good or repairable equipment was rarer thrown away as it was to valuable and more cost effective to just repair it which caused bits and pieces from older styles to linger on). The same principle would generally be the case through the various periods of the middle ages, things didn't get thrown away except for specific and important purposes (or in battle when running to save your life where your life trumps any tool you use), if it could be repaired or reused somehow it would tend to be, and a weapon could be maintained and used for a few generations (even if the style was becoming a little archaic).


    WithinAmnesia
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