OP, you and I have a very different view about summoning in ToB (which is cool...individualism vs carbon copies of one another!). When I first experienced it I was like cool, characters I never used now have 2.5 mil XP so if I want to use them I can. And I can control the level up by allocating proficiencies how I want them. And from a RP perspective it makes sense that they are not the same as you left them. While your off adventuring and...won't say more because I don't want to spoul anything...they are doing their own things too, not just waiting for you to pick them back up. As for what you see as a predetermined party...play the game a few more times and try out different NPCs. I was like you with regards to Aerie...never played her because I thought she was pretty weak initially. Man was I wrong. She is a powerhouse (and one of my favorite NPCs) even from early SoA. Don't lock yourself into Keldorn because of Carsomyr...Haer'dalis, Hexxat, and Jan can use that if you really want it (it's not necessary and there are other two-handers that are just as good), and as has been brought up before take a look at the druid progression chart at the difference of1.5 mil Xp vs 3 mil XP to see why Cernd is a definitely a possible party member. Also remember that the automatic 2.5 million XP summoned characters start with is probably significantly lower than your party members ( for me around 3-3.5 mil) and HLA's are huge in ToB. I guess all I'm saying is don't pigeonhole NPCs because of what you've read or your preconceived notions...try them out and if you like them plan on using them in parties, if not leave them alone (I'm looking at you Keldorn and Anomen haha). Choose the party you want and have a blast getting getting back back what was taken from you
" Don't lock yourself into Keldorn because of Carsomyr...Haer'dalis, Hexxat, and Jan can use that if you really want it"
Ok, how? Hexxat is a thief; two hander proficiency slots are not in her kit. The same can be said for Jan. Haer'Daelis is a bard; Keldorn's Inquisitor kit is hugely more useful. Hell, it was useful even before he got Carsomyr. Lots of protection from evil (pesky demons!), ability to dispel magic and cast true sight? I gave him Carsomyr, gauntlets of dexterity and girdle of hill giant strength to offset his physical weak spots. His worst failing is his fanaticism; I can't have Hexxat or Viconia in the same party with him.
Also, Haer'Daelis is a wimpy bard. Now, before everybody goes ballistic and tells me exactly how to make him into a Badass Death Machine, let me say that I have been spoiled by an MMORPG that I play. High level bards there kick butt. They have many different bard songs, and a high level bard can sing several songs at once, while still using weapons.
Imagine Haer'Daelis being able to have haste, strength of one and standard BG bard song all going at once, while simultaneously singing up the equivalent of horrid wilting.
OK, this really has nothing whatsoever to do with NPCs here, just wanted to put in a plug for GemstoneIV. It's a text-based game, so no fancy graphics like WOW, but it's great if you have a good visual imagination.
Also, what the heck type of weapon is Crom Feyr? I don't have all the component parts yet, but if it's such a gnarly weapon I should have someone who has some proficiency with it. Since one of the components is a hammer I'm going to guess it's a super duper warhammer, but it's not specifically stated.
(Since this requires advance planning, it falls under the "strategy" topic).
Yeah, Crom is a warhammer. I suggest you start Anomen on the dualwielding path, and put Crom in his off-hand. It's passive properties are awesome but it doesn't have any components that are on-hit based.
One of the best weapons in the game along with Flail of Ages and Carsomyr.
HLA's are definitely able to be gotten in SoA albeit late in SoA (ch 6 or 7). The way I use it is if I have a paladin he wields it constantly (gotta love that MR). Forgetting the MR, Carsomyr is fantastic at getting rid of annoying buffs, but my rogues have other weapons they want to use as their primary weapon (Hexxat loves her Dagger of the Stars, Haer'dalis is a 2 weapon fanatic, and Jan just loves putting bolts in hobgoblins haha), so they only use it to go after annoying mages with buffs.
I realize that you just said not to do this, but I just have to gasp at your assessment of Haer'Dalis. Keldorn is definitely the best character in the game against mages, but Haer'Dalis is probably best character in the game against physical combatants (and happens to be no slouch against mages either). He's just so completely invulnerable to physical attacks, between defensive spin and all his defensive spells. He is terrible at traditional bard stuff, but dear gods is he good at fighting.
In a broader sense, Carsomyr is awesome, but hardly mandatory. True Sight + Breach will neutralize almost any mage. Of course you'd be happier having Carsomyr on top of that, but it's more icing on the cake than an essential tool.
Jerrakul said: "I realize that you just said not to do this," "He is terrible at traditional bard stuff, but dear gods is he good at fighting."
Yes, you can buff him up and he gets good. You missed the part where I said imagine him with all that other stuff as well; comparison with bards in GSIV was the basis for calling him "wimpy".
(Probably unfair since they are totally different games, but whatever ... I'm biased, sue me)
"Haer'Dalis is probably best character in the game against physical combatants"
You need to qualify that statement with "best NPC character"; MC is better.
I mean, I have no basis for comparison to GSIV bards, but I suspect you're underestimating how invulnerable Haer'Dalis is with very little effort. His offensive buffs are definitely not on par with what you're describing (although he can eventually get Improved Haste, which should not be underestimated), but he is far and away the best tank in the game.
But yes, I'll concede the superiority of Charnames in general. I guarantee Haer'Dalis can out-tank your berserker by a fair margin, but I doubt he does anywhere near the damage, and he's a lot squishier against magic without very specific buffs in place. But comparing NPCs to Charnames isn't really fair in general, unless the NPC in question is Edwin.
"I guarantee Haer'Dalis can out-tank your berserker by a fair margin,"
OK, you are going to make me fire up ToB, create a bard and see what the story is. What flavor of bard is Haer'Daelis? Also, I have to assume you mean tanking due to the character's raw abilities alone, without taking gear into account. There is so much varied gear around it would be hard to compare.
Haer'Dalis is a blade. And yeah, I don't mean due to specific powerful items, although he does less-specifically need some decent bard armor to filter out hits from weak enemies. That's okay, because there's such a suit in his personal quest. In a pinch, he can also manage with bracers or spells.
The core of the blade's tanking comes from three spells and a special ability. The special ability is Defensive Spin, which grants +10 AC for 24 seconds but stops him from moving (technically it's +1/level, but it caps at +10 and he'll hit that almost immediately). That's just a lot of AC, even if being stuck in place is lame, and he gets it several times per day. The spells are Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and if you're feeling especially unfair, Protection from Magic Weapons. Mirror Image and Stoneskin will basically negate a set amount of hits (8 and 10 respectively by 20th level), regardless of their damage, and have very short casting times so they can easily be recast in combat. That's anywhere from ~90 to ~600 damage negated, depending on the enemy doing the attacking. They're vulnerable to dispelling, and have a few weaknesses (Stoneskin doesn't block elemental damage, neither blocks poison), but physical enemies will be left dealing minimal damage if any. Stoneskin also lasts 8 hours, so you can just cast it at the start of the day and forget about it for a while. If you're feeling extra vindictive, cast Protection from Magic Weapons and be totally immune to attacks from everything worth mentioning for 24 seconds. Also has a short casting time, so again, it's perfectly reasonable to use in melee combat.
Now, I should note that most of this can also be accomplished by a fighter/mage, which is a large portion of why they're so incredibly powerful. A fighter/mage loses out on defensive spin, but gains higher level spells (eventually) and the ability to deal serious damage, which the blade never really gets. But there are no fighter/mage NPCs, so Haer'Dalis is kind of a boss.
I was just going to post something along those lines myself. My impressions of bards came from Garrick in BG!1and Haer'Dalis when we first meet him ... he's what? Level 10 or 11? ... he's not that impressive there. But I rolled up a blade for ToB and at 19th (or was it 20th) level he got a potload of spells. Needless to say I picked the best defensive ones for him; shield, mirror image, stoneskin plus haste. So yeah, I can see the defensive aspect getting much stronger at those levels of ability.
Yeah Crom Faeyr is a war hammer. Also rogues (bards and thieves) get the HLA Use Any Item which, you guessed it, allows them to use any item.
Ah; that's in ToB then, of which I have little knowledge. But doesn't it require a paladin to get Carsomyr's full benefits?
The only part rogues miss on this is weapon proficiencies. They will wield Carsomyr with some penalties. With rogue-Thac0 I've never seen much point in doing this. UAI has better uses.
@Jarrakul Thanks a lot! Now I wanna roll a blade..
There's no such thing as a wmpy bard. Just people using them poorly.
Garrick/Eldoth are tied with the mages as the strongest characters in BG1. And Eldoth is a little better since he can make his own Poisoned arrows. He's basically a Bard-assassin as a single class.
Though to be fair....bards are poorly adapted, so you have to choose between their song and doing something else (which isn't supposed to be the case, with Bard song lasting 1 round per level by default, and Skald Song lasting as long as they're in combat + 1 round/level outside of combat).
A dual-wielding Dorn with DoE, armor of faith and hardiness would be even better at tanking in ToB, he might even become nearly unkillable if you give him the armor from his ToB quest and Foebane or Blackrazor. He would not have stoneskin or such things but he might tank all and any type of attack, whether physical or elemental, except maybe Acid ( I believe he has no way to lower acid damage apart from armor of faith and Shadow Dragon Scales).
Blades' strength really come from the Mislead+ Improved bard song combo and spell immunity (which is the one single spell in the game that can make you immune to dispel)+ defensive spells (stoneskin is absolutely OP on them because they are way higher level than mages, which is like 5 more hit on their stoneskin).
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definitely a possible party member. Also remember that the automatic 2.5 million XP summoned characters start with is probably significantly lower than your party members ( for me around 3-3.5 mil) and HLA's are huge in ToB. I guess all I'm saying is don't pigeonhole NPCs because of what you've read or your preconceived notions...try them out and if you like them plan on using them in parties, if not leave them alone (I'm looking at you Keldorn and Anomen haha). Choose the party you want and have a blast getting getting back back what was taken from you
Ok, how? Hexxat is a thief; two hander proficiency slots are not in her kit. The same can be said for Jan. Haer'Daelis is a bard; Keldorn's Inquisitor kit is hugely more useful. Hell, it was useful even before he got Carsomyr. Lots of protection from evil (pesky demons!), ability to dispel magic and cast true sight? I gave him Carsomyr, gauntlets of dexterity and girdle of hill giant strength to offset his physical weak spots. His worst failing is his fanaticism; I can't have Hexxat or Viconia in the same party with him.
Imagine Haer'Daelis being able to have haste, strength of one and standard BG bard song all going at once, while simultaneously singing up the equivalent of horrid wilting.
OK, this really has nothing whatsoever to do with NPCs here, just wanted to put in a plug for GemstoneIV. It's a text-based game, so no fancy graphics like WOW, but it's great if you have a good visual imagination.
(Since this requires advance planning, it falls under the "strategy" topic).
One of the best weapons in the game along with Flail of Ages and Carsomyr.
Ah; that's in ToB then, of which I have little knowledge. But doesn't it require a paladin to get Carsomyr's full benefits?
In a broader sense, Carsomyr is awesome, but hardly mandatory. True Sight + Breach will neutralize almost any mage. Of course you'd be happier having Carsomyr on top of that, but it's more icing on the cake than an essential tool.
"I realize that you just said not to do this,"
"He is terrible at traditional bard stuff, but dear gods is he good at fighting."
Yes, you can buff him up and he gets good. You missed the part where I said imagine him with all that other stuff as well; comparison with bards in GSIV was the basis for calling him "wimpy".
(Probably unfair since they are totally different games, but whatever ... I'm biased, sue me)
"Haer'Dalis is probably best character in the game against physical combatants"
You need to qualify that statement with "best NPC character"; MC is better.
But yes, I'll concede the superiority of Charnames in general. I guarantee Haer'Dalis can out-tank your berserker by a fair margin, but I doubt he does anywhere near the damage, and he's a lot squishier against magic without very specific buffs in place. But comparing NPCs to Charnames isn't really fair in general, unless the NPC in question is Edwin.
OK, you are going to make me fire up ToB, create a bard and see what the story is. What flavor of bard is Haer'Daelis? Also, I have to assume you mean tanking due to the character's raw abilities alone, without taking gear into account. There is so much varied gear around it would be hard to compare.
The core of the blade's tanking comes from three spells and a special ability. The special ability is Defensive Spin, which grants +10 AC for 24 seconds but stops him from moving (technically it's +1/level, but it caps at +10 and he'll hit that almost immediately). That's just a lot of AC, even if being stuck in place is lame, and he gets it several times per day. The spells are Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and if you're feeling especially unfair, Protection from Magic Weapons. Mirror Image and Stoneskin will basically negate a set amount of hits (8 and 10 respectively by 20th level), regardless of their damage, and have very short casting times so they can easily be recast in combat. That's anywhere from ~90 to ~600 damage negated, depending on the enemy doing the attacking. They're vulnerable to dispelling, and have a few weaknesses (Stoneskin doesn't block elemental damage, neither blocks poison), but physical enemies will be left dealing minimal damage if any. Stoneskin also lasts 8 hours, so you can just cast it at the start of the day and forget about it for a while. If you're feeling extra vindictive, cast Protection from Magic Weapons and be totally immune to attacks from everything worth mentioning for 24 seconds. Also has a short casting time, so again, it's perfectly reasonable to use in melee combat.
Now, I should note that most of this can also be accomplished by a fighter/mage, which is a large portion of why they're so incredibly powerful. A fighter/mage loses out on defensive spin, but gains higher level spells (eventually) and the ability to deal serious damage, which the blade never really gets. But there are no fighter/mage NPCs, so Haer'Dalis is kind of a boss.
No more wimpy bard comments.
I have an inordinate love of frontline bards.
@Jarrakul Thanks a lot! Now I wanna roll a blade..
Garrick/Eldoth are tied with the mages as the strongest characters in BG1. And Eldoth is a little better since he can make his own Poisoned arrows. He's basically a Bard-assassin as a single class.
Though to be fair....bards are poorly adapted, so you have to choose between their song and doing something else (which isn't supposed to be the case, with Bard song lasting 1 round per level by default, and Skald Song lasting as long as they're in combat + 1 round/level outside of combat).
He would not have stoneskin or such things but he might tank all and any type of attack, whether physical or elemental, except maybe Acid ( I believe he has no way to lower acid damage apart from armor of faith and Shadow Dragon Scales).
Blades' strength really come from the Mislead+ Improved bard song combo and spell immunity (which is the one single spell in the game that can make you immune to dispel)+ defensive spells (stoneskin is absolutely OP on them because they are way higher level than mages, which is like 5 more hit on their stoneskin).