RPing a dual-classed PC.

aj_

I've always shied away from dual-classing because it didn't make any sense to me from a RPing perspective. Why would, say, a fighter wanting to delve into the arcane arts suddenly lose his ability to fight, and then regain it later?

But then I thought of cases where this kind of thing would make sense. Ie. a Priest of Lathander / Thief. The idea is that after the traumatizing ordeal of being imprisoned by Irenicus, the PC eventually turns into a paranoid shadow-skulker, thieving in order to earn gold quickly in order to rescue Imoen (perhaps doing the Thieves' Guild quests), thus losing favor with his god. Eventually, he redeems himself through heroic deeds (side-quests) and regains his clerical abilities, becoming a sort of Robin Hood.

The other way around would also work: Assassin / Cleric. PC is a contract killer, but blames himself for Imoen's abduction and turns to the gods. His personality changes, he comes to terms with his past and learns to apply his old skills to good causes.

With a little effort you could probably argue for all combos (though likely not wizard slayer / mage :P), but these I think are the easiest.

JuliusBorisov

I'm not a fan of the dual-classing.

The best RP concept of the dual-classing I can think of is that your character, who became a winner in the Baldur's Gate city, is simply stunned by the power of Irenicus's magic at the start of BG2 and thinks he should learn completely new things in order to overcome the wizard. This way a fighter can become a mage, for example.

aj_

That doesn't make sense to me, Bengoshi. Why would the character completely abandon what he's good at to become a weakling with a few cantrips, instead of being like a fighter/mage, gradually learning spells to augment his proven combat prowess?

Yannir

Dual-classing to a mage in any instance is ridiculous RP-wise. One does not simply start being a mage! Magic is a hard craft, and you should need a mentor, a master or a guide. Something! It takes an apprentice mage years to be able to perform any spell, let alone learn to shoot fireballs in a few days!

FinneousPJ

@aj_ You have to learn the cantrips first to become a fighter/mage.

semiticgoddess

I can think of some justifications for some dual-class combinations. Let's get a fighter/mage out of the way first.

It's true that being a mage takes years of training, but you could easily say that your character already had some training in magic before actually dedicating their efforts towards it. So, your Charname studied magic under Gorion, but preferred training with the Candlekeep guards, and worked as a fighter during BG1. Later, Charname decides that their physical abilities are no longer cutting it, and returns to the study of magic to stay competitive. The same could apply to a Thief->Mage. Without a background, though, it wouldn't be realistic for an untrained fighter to suddenly start reading magical texts and understanding their content.

Fighter->Druid and Fighter->Cleric: Simply enough, a fighter comes across a convincing faith and decides to pursue it.

Fighter->Thief: The fighter gets tired of getting maced in the face and decides to play a less combat-oriented role.

Thief->Cleric: The thief gets caught stealing from a temple and the authorities let him or her pay their debt by working for the church. In time, they come to identify with the faith and join the church voluntarily.

Cleric->Thief: A cleric finds him or herself unable to save a party member from a trap, and realizes that healing isn't always as effective as prevention.

Mage->Thief, Mage->Fighter, and Mage->Cleric: In a word, the mage gets tired of all the studying and wants to try something new and more exciting.

dunbar

For me it's quite simple, any change of direction can be justified by a change of heart.

A real life example:
When I left school I started a career in an area that I had excelled at academically but found that I wasn't cut out for in reality. I then stumbled into a new career which I really enjoyed, but the fundamental requirements for progress were qualifications in all the subjects I'd failed at school, so I studied and trained like crazy and went on to make a huge success of it.

semiticgoddess

Maybe an ugly fighter started studying magic so he could cast Charm Person on the ladies.

Jarrakul

It's worth keeping in mind that, in the pen-and-paper game, dual-classed characters didn't lose the abilities of their original class. Instead, they didn't gain any experience from adventures in which they used their original class, until their new class levels exceeded their old class levels. Basically, the idea was that you won't learn your new skills if you're still relying on your old ones. This isn't a perfect justification, of course, but it's better than nothing. BG simplifies the whole thing by just not letting you use skills from your old class, as that's how you'd act in 95% of situations anyway.

Arunsun

Assassin/Cleric does make sense, if you are playing some evil cleric and roleplay it as devoted to Cyric for example

OzzyBotkins

RPing a duel classed CHARNAME is viable in BG2
if you have played a fighter or thief or Cleric in BG1
at the beginning of BG2 when you lose your
BFF Imoen your character might have panicked and switched to mage

Grum

In Chateau Irenicus, Charname was experimented on. Sick, injured, magically weakened by the initial attempt to steal his/her soul, Charname in desperation tries something different.

"I used to be a great warrior! I can barely lift a sword. I'm going to learn how to cast a few spells to protect myself until I get over this."

"I used to be a master thief. Now my hands can't stop shaking. How am I supposed to disarm a trap like this or pick a lock? I can't even sneak around, as I can't stop coughing. Give me that plate armor. I'm going to have to tough this out. Better give me a shield too, the last thing I want is to lose my head."

"I used to be a mage of great power! Now I...I am dangerously deterioriated. I can't even must a simple cantrap. Gods! Whomever is listening, please...please help. I will serve you with all my soul! I shall be your cleric! Do not leave me powerless..."

Jarrakul

"I used to be the hero of the Sword Coast, but then I took an acid arrow to the knee"? :P

DJKajuru

Instead of dualing for emotional reasons, such as panicking or being traumatised, I believe that it should be done for two reasons:

1- To become a special class: A fighter decides to become a fighter mage to complement his fighting skill and to have access to something he's never had in his life - raw magic! Or a cleric who foresees a great conflict, and decides that it's his god's will to abandon his spellcasting progress and become a fighter specialised in clerical weapons.

Of course that the fighter-mage will need a tutor, and I don't believe that it should be an easy process. Also , the fighter-cleric will have to live without his magic for a while, until he is ready to combine both skills.


2-To forget his old class: Perhaps Imoen doesn't like stealing, and thinks that becoming an archmage someday will offer better rewards? Or even a fighter who becomes a pacifist priest?

They'll always have their previous skills, but will rarely show it with pride.

shawne

Best in-story justification would probably be the influence of a close companion. If you dual-class into a Thief, it's because you've picked up some tips from Imoen. If you dual-class into a mage, you asked Dynaheir or Edwin to train you. If you dual-class to a cleric, you were converted into practicing faith by Branwen or Viconia.

pplr

You've actually spent time with multiple fighter, mages, & clerics over the past few years so if your character wanted to try something along the lines of something any of them taught him or her it would make sense.

As for the whole loose your abilities that you've been practicing for the past years just because you are trying something new now.. that is a problem of the game system and I'll point out was done away with (probably with good reasons like you wouldn't suddenly forget your fighting or mage skills simply because you wanted to learn how to pick pockets and so on).

I don't have an RP problem with changing trades or classes as much as the way the game tries to manage that.

cognoscentus

Because the human/dolphin dual class was already taken?

abacus

i mentioned this in a similar thread previously, but any of the stronghold quests could be used as inspiration/opportunity for a change of focus...

Encountering the Eyeless one drives you into the service of Helm?

The possibilities presented by the Planar Sphere?

The idea of an idyllic semi-retirement in the Umar Hills or D'Arnise Keep once your adventuring days are done?

Or Bloodscalp's offer of the chance to earn some real coin...

"Finally, my chance to play Haml... what? What do you mean I can't dual-class to Bard?!! Who came up with these fricken' rules anyway?"

JoshBG

aj_ said:

That doesn't make sense to me, Bengoshi. Why would the character completely abandon what he's good at to become a weakling with a few cantrips, instead of being like a fighter/mage, gradually learning spells to augment his proven combat prowess?

In PnP, if I remember correctly, you can use your first class even if it still has more levels than the second class. However, you won't receive ANY experience while doing this.

So, for all intent and purposes it's the same, but it does make more sense from the RP perspective.

gunman

Some power-playing builds can be hardly credible RP wise, but a fighter dualing early to a mage does not mean a mindless brute that can't have any inclination towards arcane arts. For example I am currently role-playing a fighter specialized in crossbows (interested in mechanical contraptions) that also has interest in history, nature, arcane arts, and started studying magic after 3 levels of fighter where he invested all proficiency points into crossbows. A kind of Leonardo da Vinci of the Forgotten realms.

Feytor

I think that with some imagination (we are RPG fans so that should be covered) you can justify all dual classes. Dual to mage in a dungeon.... Well perhaps you just found a lost spellbook of someone etc.

The game mechanics are really weird. If a lvl 9 fighter duals to mage and he has spent his lonely magic missile, he will not suddenly start fabbing the wrong end of his sword (which he cannot use...) to the enemy.

I was thinking more along these lines:
lvl 9 fighter -> mage
8-1
7-2
6-3
5-4
5-5
6-6
...
9-9
9-10 etc.

this would represent the diminishing fighter skills you have because of youre arcane studies and still 'not instantly forget the things you know'

Perhaps this character is OP and we still have the 'hack all apart to increase my wizzard skill' problem, but what do you think of it?

could it be modded ?

Arunsun

Jarrakul said:

"I used to be the hero of the Sword Coast, but then I took an acid arrow to the knee"? :P

I rarely laughed that much, thank you a lot bro

As for the roleplay of a dual-classed PC, I would simply say that, as a child of a god, he learns quickly everything, which makes dual-classing not so unrealistic

Archaos

And here we come to one of the worst implemented mechanics of ADnD (along with THAC0 and negative AC, or race class limitations).

It doesn't really make any sense, RP or mechanics-wise and it's only good for powergaming really.
Which led to the infamous Kensai/Mages and Berserker/Cleric.

Multiclassing on the other hand, both in ADnD and 3E makes ton of sense.
Either you do both things at the same time but it takes you more time to master them (ADnD).
Or you dabble in the talents of a class for whatever reason (3E).