How would you do a 3-4 characters party?

Sloty

After I complete it with a full party, I want toplay the game through with a small party of 3-4 characters.
It should still be very powerful though.
Which classes and races would you suggest for that playthrough?

Merina

You may have heard or read that some players create one character only and still finish the game. Depending on how you play, some members of your party can become more of a hindrance than helpful ... if you feel you need to retreat often, for example, or if your spell casters do all the work.

Personally, I've had fun at several difficulty settings with this party:

* berserker, half-orc
* cleric/thief, half-orc
* totemic druid, half-elf
* sorcerer, elf

At normal difficulty, with that party of four the game ends around level 14 (Fighter), and you can choose to continue into Heart of Winter if you like.

Sloty

Okay thanks!

But could you post a little comment of each of your party members and how you use each?
I dont think its obvious from the races and classes alone...
And what stats does each one need?

Another question: If I would build a F/M/C how should I best distribute the stats?

DreadKhan

Try a shorty semi-challenge party... Halfer Fighter Thief, Gnome Illusionist, Dwarven Defender, and a Dwarf F/C. Great saves for everyone! The gnome could be a F/I too.

Edit: FMC needs great wisdom for extra spells, might want great int to improve your scribing, and high dex and cons because they are harder to buff. Note, str will soon be very easy for a cleric to buff, even a multi. Be cautious about uber-dumping str, but cleric buffs will set your min eventually. Even the mage strength spell is sufficient.

Note: If all your melee folks have the same alignment, Righteous Wrath is insanely good.

Sloty

Do you have more input on my questions Merina?

moody_mage

I soloed a FMT through the entire IWD saga. That was tough to begin with but as per all solo challenges grew progressively easier. The same will hold true for a small party so go with what works for you.

Zyzzogeton

FMT
FMC or Berserker>Druid
Archer
Sorcerer

Dungeonnoob

My 4 Darkling's

Human Blackguard with longsword,flail/morningstar and longbow

Dark moon monk or Dvarwen defender with 2 handed axe/spear

Assassin with dual wielding shortswords

Priest of Talos with warhammer


This crew haven't been tested yet,but I'm looking forward to try them out soon.

Merina

Sloty said:

Do you have more input on my questions Merina?

You've been given lots of suggestions on what party and what characters to create. By now you may have noticed there is no single recipe. There are many choices to choose from, ... many to have fun with, ... many to finish the game successfully. IWDEE is beautiful because of its replaying factor. There is nothing wrong with discontinueing a game and restarting with a party you like better. Just find out what you like and what you can handle in combat fine.

Don't try to avoid the manual like a plague. Start a game with one of the default parties to learn to know it. Discover their strengths and weaknesses. It's the same when learning new spells and when memorizing spells. It's you who needs to choose what to learn, what to memorize and what to cast in which situation.

In my opinion the game is also much more fun, if you avoid reading walkthroughs, faqs and howtos before playing it yourself.

The rather simple but still powerful party-of-four I've outlined is a pretty safe choice:

The Berserker as a fighter has all options to become more defensive or more offensive. It's a half-orc because of the attribute bonus that race gets. Once you've made a first encounter with enemy archers, decide yourself whether you like learning the sword-and-shield skill for its extra protection against ranged attacks. It's not necessary but can be helpful depending on how you like to play.

The multi-class Cleric/Thief is a trade-off. Enough experience to learn disarming traps early enough and advances fast enough (at anything equal to or higher than Core difficulty) to become a good cleric.

The Sorcerer learns those spells that work for me. No dependency on scrolls.

The Totemic Druid adds a bit of early healing ... during resting ... and summons the spirit animal before there are other spells to summon better allies. Else the druid is played like a mage ... keeping distance to the enemies. No melee combat. At most ranged attacks with a sling, or wearing a staff with some spell charges.

ifupauline

i did it with a kensai // shapeshifter // thief mage

I had scale of balance instaled.

Wowo

Avenger
Sorcerer
Archer

This team will completely dominate and be totally fun at the same time.

DreadKhan

Wowo said:

Avenger
Sorcerer
Archer

This team will completely dominate and be totally fun at the same time.

If you run that, the only issues would be meleeing, which the Avenger can shapeshift for, and the Archer can use dual wielding almost as well as any other ranger. Judicious use of Web though, with 2 casters, will easily shut down many swarms, so melee should be less important. Later, summons can carry the front line.

Sloty

Which weapons can a cleric/thief backstab with?

Wowo

Sloty said:

Which weapons can a cleric/thief backstab with?

Staff and club. In BG1 and 2 this is no problem as there are some super powerful staves but in IWD there really isn't any comparable weapons.

DreadKhan said:

Wowo said:

Avenger
Sorcerer
Archer

This team will completely dominate and be totally fun at the same time.

If you run that, the only issues would be meleeing, which the Avenger can shapeshift for, and the Archer can use dual wielding almost as well as any other ranger. Judicious use of Web though, with 2 casters, will easily shut down many swarms, so melee should be less important. Later, summons can carry the front line.

The sorcerer can melee quite well by using Polymorph Self especially if you go with Dragon Disciple for the extra HP (not sure if the bonus AC translates to new forms but if it does it would be awesome).

Really shouldn't be much need for melee with this party anyway, just freaking destroy everything (which won't be difficult).

DreadKhan

Summoned Spiders are handy for an Avenger/Sorcerer duo though, and you probably want Stoneskin, how early would you choose Polymorph self?

Wowo

DreadKhan said:

Summoned Spiders are handy for an Avenger/Sorcerer duo though, and you probably want Stoneskin, how early would you choose Polymorph self?

Polymorph Self is significantly buffed in IWD with some of the Druid changes added to the list. Honestly it would be perfectly viable as a first choice when combined with Mirror Image and other buffs. Survivability for harder fights could easily be taken care of by an Improved Invisibility from the Avenger.

DreadKhan

You wouldn't rather just double cast Web, shapeshift the Avenger and summon a few Spiders? The Sorcerer can then help support incase enemies start making saves (...unlikely I admit), he can blind or drop a horror. Still, your THAC0 will stink, even shifted I think? Not that you can't help tank for the Archer though. Minor Sequencer is 4th too, and Stoneskin is hard to say no to imo.

Southpaw

Aah...the classic small party. You gotta cover all the necessary roles in the team, which are 4 - Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief.

As it stands, if you want to go for an average degree of power-leveling, I'd go for:

Dwarven Berserker
Human Cleric of Helm (True seeing offsets the Mages shortcomings) or half-elven Fighter/Druid
Half-orc Fighter/Thief
Elven Conjurer Mage

Zyzzogeton

So why Shapeshift instead of Spike Growth? What can the forms do better over 2D4 per round per enemy? Just summon something to handle aggro.

Wowo

Zyzzogeton said:

So why Shapeshift instead of Spike Growth? What can the forms do better over 2D4 per round per enemy? Just summon something to handle aggro.

That's quite a lot of micromanagement. Almost as fast or faster to just shapechange and auto attack, especially at the rate that you gain access to the forms with the higher xp.

Sloty

Okay thanks!
If its possible I want:
- 2 arcane casters
- 2 divine casters
- 1-3 good melees
- a way to open locks

Bonus if you can iclude:
-1 Sorcerer
-1 Bard of any kit

and all that in a small party...

Zyzzogeton

Seriously? A lot of micromanagement? Compared to what? None at all?

I play this on a tablet and the amount of taps I do with a full caster party doesn't even come close to games like Battleheart. IE games are on the low end of the spectrum of real time games where there's actual micromanagement. I've seen low ranked RTS players with better micro skills than what's needed for a caster intensive party.

Locks are handled by Knock.

Sorcerer
Blade
Berserker Cleric
Berserker Druid

Sloty

At which level would you dual over?
Or would multiclassed F/C and F/D be better?

FinneousPJ

@Sloty Level 7. 9 if you want an extra rage. 13 if you want the extra 1/2 attack but I wouldn't recommend it.

Sloty

How do you handle healing before they 2 dual over?
Wouldnt a Kensai be better dual material for one of them two?

Dont you think a F/M/C and F/M/T combo would be better? Then I could add 2 extra of whichever classes I want... perhaps an avenger or a bard or a sorcerer or a REAL tank...

Or another idea: A 4 character party without ANY fighter classes mixed in...
perhaps Bard,Avenger,Sorcerer and some melee strong type of cleric?

Aerich

@Sloty, what difficulty level are you planning on playing? Core? If so, even with a smaller party, a triple class will level up very slowly. Relying on a F/M/Cl for clerical support and/or tanking is made harder by the levelling issue.

You heal on rest, not while fighting. Sorc should take spells that reduce your chances of getting hit.

The problem with a kensai is that it can't wear armor or a helmet - meaning AC issues early on and susceptibility to critical hits.

My view on a small party is if party size = n, it is preferable to have at least n-1 casters. After that, you're good. After you have experience with the game, it becomes exponentially easier, so pretty much any party with spell options will do. Get some experience and then play the party you want to play, not because someone says Party A is more powerful than Party B.

Sloty

I want to play on the hardest or 2nd hardest difficulty without HoF...HoF later then.
I just want to play...something different this time around...
I have started the original game(without EE) so many times with different parties so now I want a powerful party that is off mainstream...

Zyzzogeton

Since you don't start in HoF. Kensais are fine.

Sloty

Which one would be the better dual from Kensai, Druid or Cleric?
And which stats would they need for succesfully dualing over?
How much melee is really needed to beat this game?
Please dont forget my other questions...

FinneousPJ

@Sloty I think Druid synergizes better with kensai due to ironskins spell. The dual would need high str,dex,con,wis and cha to be successful. More melee is better becuase it's the best most reliable damage.

Sloty

Which stats would you sacrifice then to make a succesfull Kensai to Druid?