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Best Charmed Creatures / Characters

I sometimes use Charm as a fighting strategy. Once I take command of an enemy, I'll fire off all of their spells and equip them to bare-handed. For example, against Bassilus, you leave him chasing you down with his fists. It's kind of comical really. It's like they don't remember that they have a weapon on them but know that they want to hurt you.

Anyway... I've been running a playthrough with a Wild Mage for experience, often completing side quests for maximum exp and then killing the characters afterwards when possible for even more. I just want my mage to toughen up a little so that I can wreak some unprejudiced havoc.

When I returned Mad Arcand's ring, I decided to kill him for the extra exp via the charmed strategy. It kind of caught me by surprise seeing "Animate Dead" under his spells and so, out of curiosity, I burned those off, wondering whether a summoned creature from someone charmed would remain loyal to me after the summoner turned hostile or whether they too would turn hostile, go neutral, or go away. Them turning hostile is what I expected, but once Arcand lost his charm, so to speak, I retained full control over his summoned creatures (they in fact destroyed him).

What kind of deadites did Arcand animate? Skeleton Warriors. Yup. The two of them singlehandedly crushed every enemy on that map, including the band of ogres and the sirine sisters. It was pretty glorious. I kind of want to kill them for the exp, but I'm pretty sure they could handle my lvl 5 wild mage and his trusty sidekick, Imoen... :-(

What have been the most surprising or interesting creatures / characters you've charmed? Any funny stories? Have any charmed targets come across as borderline overpowered?
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Comments

  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I don't charm many enemies, but just recently I charmed Centeol at the start of her fight. Her own spiders tore her apart. It was pretty fantastic.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    You don't get xp for killing summoned creatures.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Wowo said:

    You don't get xp for killing summoned creatures.

    I know... and I know better than that. Just got distracted by my story and hate editing anything other than grammar. I was waiting for someone to catch that! :lol:
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,724
    I'd like to mention @Jalily 's excellent lists regarding charmed characters:

    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/16681/gifts-you-can-get-from-charmed-npcs-spoilers

    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/307951/#Comment_307951

    Basically, I use the Charm spell in order to read additional lines, not because I want to use this or that person's spells and tricks, so thank you, @Fiendish_Warrior , for an insightful story. Maybe I'll try something similar on the next run.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Thanks for referencing that thread @bengoshi ! I've seen other charmed NPC lists, but I haven't seen that one before. I had no idea there were all of those little treats sprinkled in. I had mostly looked for extra dialogue from quest-related characters. I'll have to try some of those.

    On a side note, why are nobles such weak gamblers? I mean, 10 gp to go gamble? Really?!?? Do you have any idea how much a Robe of the Archmagi costs? Either items are overpriced (and by extension, you're obscenely wealthy at 20,000 gold) or nobles are cheap scrooges.

    On another side note, I would love to be able to fix up the submerged house and use it as a home. I'd pay good money to do that. I've got 27,000 gold at the moment.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    edited May 2015
    Albert (spoiler tags for those who haven't encountered him yet):

    So apparently you can really easily kill Albert with Charm.

    Once charmed (and it wasn't difficult for my lvl 6 mage), I was curious to see whether he had any spells or abilities, and surprisingly, he didn't. Knowing who he is, my next move was to force him to attack me, thinking that might initiate his transformation. I learned two things from doing this: (1) it did *not* cause him to transform and (2) he is ridiculously strong for being a little boy. He punched my CHARNAME for over 30 points of damage and killed him, obviously a perfectly targeted strike to the nether regions... :disappointed:

    When I reloaded, I charmed him again, believing this time that if I attack him, he will certainly proceed as expected and unleash the beast. Unexpectedly, he turned hostile but remained in child mode. No matter how many times I attacked him and no matter how much damage I dealt, he remained in his child form.

    Now, I can't say whether he had fewer hit points like this or was more susceptible to damage, but it was a fast fight with +1 arrows and magic missles (nothing like his true form at all). He has no spells or special attacks as a child. He just walks toward the nearest party member and tries to punch them. Avoid those strikes and easy peasy.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Tuth said:

    About Albert:

    He's also immune to non-magical weapons. You can wipe out the whole area with him easily. He can punch really hard, his crits can go over 70 points of damage. I once did a competition: duel between Albert and Drizzt. Drizzt lost.
    That's so weird because I wild surged a nabassu and quickly ran away. He targeted Drizzt to entertain my sick curiosity. I thought Drizzt was going to get handled, but he instead wrecked the nabassu. At one point, the nabassu was badly injured and Drizzt hadn't even been touched. Isn't a nabassu supposed to be more powerful than a pit fiend?
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Hell no, Pit Fiends are supposed to be about the strongest non-unique devils. Nabassu at best are a steong demon, but mainly unusual rather than super-powerful.

    The game does some funny things with fiends.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    DreadKhan said:

    Hell no, Pit Fiends are supposed to be about the strongest non-unique devils. Nabassu at best are a steong demon, but mainly unusual rather than super-powerful.

    The game does some funny things with fiends.

    Sorry. That was worded very poorly because I was trying to talk around spoilers and was in a hurry. Specifically...

    Albert has 102 hp. My point of comparison wasn't meant to be pit fiends in general (though good to know) but Albert. How does Albert stack up against the summoned nubassu? Anyone have side by side stats handy? The Fiendish Codex indicates that nubassus can have upwards of 202 hp. How is it coded in BG? They seemed to crush me just as easily as Albert has at times, and so my thought was, "Well, if Drizzt can take him down with ease, why couldn't he defeat Albert?"
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Nabassu are a bit weird because they get more powerful as they kill things, so theoretically a nabassu could be stronger than a pit fiend. But that's extremely rare. Even Aec'Latec isn't that strong, and I get the impression he's supposed to be one of the strongest nabassu out there.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Iirc, there is a max for Nabassu, but that might only be 3rd ed. Pit Fiends are supposed to be a tad weaker than a Baalor, which are about the strongest non-unique fiend, though there have been semi-exceptions, ie Klurichir have a higher CR in 3.0, but get revised much weaker in 3.5...
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580
    I read somewhere that if you charm the soldier who's chasing Viconia, he has something to say about her alleged crime - can anyone confirm if/what he says?
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580
    Jalily said:

    I read somewhere that if you charm the soldier who's chasing Viconia, he has something to say about her alleged crime - can anyone confirm if/what he says?

    I am a proud member of the Flaming Fist. Our headquarters is in Baldur's Gate, though we also operate in Beregost and the Friendly Arm Inn. Our squad's mission is to hunt down a drow elf who killed a farmer, his wife, and his kids. It was a very brutal murder, but what can you expect from the drow?
    Wow, very interesting and insightful.

    So was Viconia really a mass murderer, or was this a case of mistaken identity?
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681

    So was Viconia really a mass murderer, or was this a case of mistaken identity?

    In BG2, she gives this very detailed confession:
    I made the attempt to purchase land on the outskirts of Beregost. I dropped your good name whenever necessary to remain on steady footing locally. I remained hooded at all times, and it was only a matter of time and materials before I would own my own homestead, away from prying eyes. I was not looking to be a farmer, of course. I just... wanted a place of my own. Where I could find peace.

    My neighbor was Roran Midfallow, a stout, sunburned farmer. We spoke often, and I allowed the male to bring me supplies that I needed but could not acquire. Over time, we formed an awkward friendship. He did not ask why I wore my hood, and I slowly began to trust him. He wondered, though... that was obvious.

    The time to reveal myself as drow came one late afternoon. A warm day; the sun was dappling along the south quarter of his farmland, and I pulled down my hood. Then he smiled a warm inviting smile. He mentioned that his younger son, Jiscanan, was busy making a feast to burst the first button, and that I was invited. We walked to his farmhouse, where his other son, a surly oaf named Funnard, was sickling quackgrass in the front yard.

    When I reached his farmhouse, I learned his true intentions. Somebody hit me in the back of my skull, and the ground rushed up to meet me. I had grown weak in my trust. They chortled as I lost consciousness, saying how easy it had been and congratulating each other on a fine... a fine catch.

    I woke up to searing pain. While unconscious, they had abused and tortured me... then tried to bury their sins. I could see nothing except for the lid of a coffin. They had buried me alive... a mistake not to kill me outright. The fools knew the name "drow," but were ignorant of my true spirit. Pain is the handmaiden of my people; their tortures were amateurish in comparison.

    I split the coffin lid and let the earth in. I clawed to the surface, and pain did not slow me... I would not let weakness deter me from vengeance.

    I took my revenge, <CHARNAME>. I watched their house, listening to them celebrate their victory in the midst of drunkenness. I watched and I waited.

    Jiscanan, the younger son, left to use the outhouse. I jammed a stake in the door, trapping him inside. Then I set the building aflame.

    Roran came running, yelling to Funnard. As he stood helpless before the flames, I wrapped a garrote around his neck... I whispered to him of his mistake, and mine; he had underestimated a drow, and I had trusted foolishly. I tightened the wire until he breathed no more.

    By this time, the elder son, Funnard, returned with a bucket from the well to find his father's corpse and his brother a smoldering ember. He dropped to his knees in shock, which afforded me a height advantage as I caved his head with a miner's mallet.

    I am drow. And I let myself be lulled, foolishly. The vengeance was bitter, <CHARNAME>, because my own stupidity had made it necessary.

    Later, she says she lied, but not specifically about killing the farmer and his sons:
    I have lied to you, <CHARNAME>, lies upon lies. My tale of the farmer in Beregost? A lie. I laid with him many times, seducing him to get the things I needed.

    It was his wife and townsfolk that drove me out. Like a succubus, I have whored my way to Amn, taking what favors I could gather through sweat and passion.

    Viconia doesn't say she killed the wife, but if she was home while Viconia was killing the rest of her family, she probably didn't survive that. Of course, Viconia could have lied about the murders too.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    edited May 2015
    DreadKhan said:

    Erm, she couldn't 'drop your good name' before she met you??

    Thats a seperate murdering spree I think. IE why she left the region of Baldur's Gate, the Fist wanted her for killing people before she met you (Which could be a false accusation, or a defensible one). Do we get this clarified ever? I can't remember for sure.

    I think it's just supposing that you don't meet Viconia until after Nashkel Mines, when people are starting to talk about your good deeds. I read it as her simply admitting that she pretended to be your acquaintance in order to get what she wanted even though she hadn't met you or known you. It's like walking into a shop when the owner asks if you're related to so-and-so after seeing your name on your form of payment. If it looks like it could get you some good will or even a discount, there might be a temptation to go along with it.

    Having said that, there's clearly a chronology problem. Even if you go in order, it takes approximately, what, two weeks at most to work your way from post-Nashkel to Peldvale? That's of course assuming that getting side-tracked isn't canon. You can easily burn off a good 6-8 months in the wilderness before finishing Bandit Camp, in which case Viconia's story seems a little more reasonable.

    In light of the chronology problem, the seduction story makes more sense. It's more likely that she never dropped your name but simply seduced her way to what she wanted. The problem with that story, however, is that drow aren't exactly the most socially acceptable humanoids even though they're known to be physically appealing, using their beauty to intimidate.

    Unless the farmer had a fetish for something taboo, it's quite possible that that's a lie as well. And obviously, if she's simply lying, none of the details matter. The most important parts of the two accounts as well as the Flaming Fist charge are the invariant details. We can know with a high degree of probability that she did in fact kill a farmer and his family even if the details are obscured. And personally, the seduction story seems the most likely although I'm betting that it still isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if a little of both stories are true, that she did seduce the farmer but the farmer eventually enslaved her for his own perverted desires. Clearly, that's empty speculation though as I have no proof to offer in defense of it.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580



    Having said that, there's clearly a chronology problem. Even if you go in order, it takes approximately, what, two weeks at most to work your way from post-Nashkel to Peldvale?

    I think that it may be just another plothole created by BG2's story - much like Quayle's epic transformation, which should've taken years but somehow occurred in the matter of a few months or weeks.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    edited May 2015



    Having said that, there's clearly a chronology problem. Even if you go in order, it takes approximately, what, two weeks at most to work your way from post-Nashkel to Peldvale?

    I think that it may be just another plothole created by BG2's story - much like Quayle's epic transformation, which should've taken years but somehow occurred in the matter of a few months or weeks.
    I'm sure it is, but I like to try and explain things before defaulting to plothole. My preference is to assume plothole only when all other reasonable explanations fail. I understand others may feel differently and that's alright with me.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Yeah, but obvious counter; where would a hermit/outlaw hear Charname's name? She dropped it, IE brought it up.

    Not saying its strictly impossible, but seems like she's either lying all the time in BG2, or she has killed surfaces before meeting you, OR was somehow framed, which seems unlikely, as who had heard of her to frame her?
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352


    Snip

    Unless the farmer had a fetish for something taboo, it's quite possible that that's a lie as well. And obviously, if she's simply lying, none of the details matter. The most important parts of the two accounts as well as the Flaming Fist charge are the invariant details. We can know with a high degree of probability that she did in fact kill a farmer and his family even if the details are obscured. And personally, the seduction story seems the most likely although I'm betting that it still isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if a little of both stories are true, that she did seduce the farmer but the farmer eventually enslaved her for his own perverted desires. Clearly, that's empty speculation though as I have no proof to offer in defense of it.

    I find it hard to believe that a simple farmer, strong or not, can in any way enslave a trained and battle hardened cleric. She has far too many counters/disablers for any pure physical attacks, like hold, command, etc.

    Personally, I think her story was never fully decided and thus ambiguously implemented into the game. Or maybe it was partially written by different ppl who had different opinions on whether or not she should be truly evil or just a little evíl and still very likable, hehe..
  • gunmangunman Member Posts: 215

    I sometimes use Charm as a fighting strategy. Once I take command of an enemy, I'll fire off all of their spells and equip them to bare-handed. For example, against Bassilus, you leave him chasing you down with his fists. It's kind of comical really. It's like they don't remember that they have a weapon on them but know that they want to hurt you.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I installed SCS that if you switch the weapon of charmed character to bare fists, when the charm wears off they will switch back to their weapon.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Skatan said:


    Snip

    Unless the farmer had a fetish for something taboo, it's quite possible that that's a lie as well. And obviously, if she's simply lying, none of the details matter. The most important parts of the two accounts as well as the Flaming Fist charge are the invariant details. We can know with a high degree of probability that she did in fact kill a farmer and his family even if the details are obscured. And personally, the seduction story seems the most likely although I'm betting that it still isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if a little of both stories are true, that she did seduce the farmer but the farmer eventually enslaved her for his own perverted desires. Clearly, that's empty speculation though as I have no proof to offer in defense of it.

    I find it hard to believe that a simple farmer, strong or not, can in any way enslave a trained and battle hardened cleric. She has far too many counters/disablers for any pure physical attacks, like hold, command, etc.

    Personally, I think her story was never fully decided and thus ambiguously implemented into the game. Or maybe it was partially written by different ppl who had different opinions on whether or not she should be truly evil or just a little evíl and still very likable, hehe..
    In an outright battle, I agree, but a club to the back of an unexpected head kind of levels the playing field, and if his sons were involved, who knows what sort of skills or abilities they had. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of his sons had joined the military. He wouldn't be the first son of a farmer to do so.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Speaking of charming, something strange has been occurring on this playthrough. In the past, if a sirine dire charmed me, it was game over. However, in this playthrough, the game has continued after CHARNAME has been dire charmed, usually allowing my party members to take care of business until my charm wears off. Is this a "Blackguard thing" that I didn't know about, am I unwittingly doing something different, or is this something anomalous? I don't recall downloading an update or a mod that would have changed this.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857

    Skatan said:


    Snip

    Unless the farmer had a fetish for something taboo, it's quite possible that that's a lie as well. And obviously, if she's simply lying, none of the details matter. The most important parts of the two accounts as well as the Flaming Fist charge are the invariant details. We can know with a high degree of probability that she did in fact kill a farmer and his family even if the details are obscured. And personally, the seduction story seems the most likely although I'm betting that it still isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if a little of both stories are true, that she did seduce the farmer but the farmer eventually enslaved her for his own perverted desires. Clearly, that's empty speculation though as I have no proof to offer in defense of it.

    I find it hard to believe that a simple farmer, strong or not, can in any way enslave a trained and battle hardened cleric. She has far too many counters/disablers for any pure physical attacks, like hold, command, etc.

    Personally, I think her story was never fully decided and thus ambiguously implemented into the game. Or maybe it was partially written by different ppl who had different opinions on whether or not she should be truly evil or just a little evíl and still very likable, hehe..
    In an outright battle, I agree, but a club to the back of an unexpected head kind of levels the playing field, and if his sons were involved, who knows what sort of skills or abilities they had. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of his sons had joined the military. He wouldn't be the first son of a farmer to do so.
    Herein we find the biggest annoyance I have with most gaming combat systems; yep, a really good completely unexpected blow from a club (think slightly slightly smaller baseball bat) WOULD pretty much end someone's resistance, likely causing a serious concusion, internal bleeding/swelling, etc.

    However, this isn't usually possible in games. In 2nd Ed, only Thieves can backstab for example. Its hard to balance realism sometimes; it shouldn't be that much harder to knock out even a high level opponent if you can set up well enough, but that tends to mess up balance. Books are much better for this realism at times, but not always.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352


    In an outright battle, I agree, but a club to the back of an unexpected head kind of levels the playing field, and if his sons were involved, who knows what sort of skills or abilities they had. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of his sons had joined the military. He wouldn't be the first son of a farmer to do so.

    I was mainly refering to the "enslavement" of her, not the description of how she was attacked/subdued (club in the head). The second she woke up afterwards, she could have started to chant her magic, allowing her to either kill or charm her captors etc. The only way they could have actually ensvaled her is if she was continuously bound and gagged so she can't use magic, but I'm actually unsure if hands are even used in divine magic or if it's purely verbal? Maybe some FR guru can enlighten me.

    @DreadKhan: I agree. The standard of using "HP" does weird things with many situations where the logical outcome can't really be reproduced in the RPG setting. Like a char fighting equally good at 1 HP as with full HP, which of course, is completely ridiculous.
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