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BG2, Ascension final battle, SCS, Insanity - who's actually done it?

I would like to hear from people who have managed to finish the Ascension improved final battle with SCS' improved demons, celestials and smarter Melissan on Insanity without anything too cheesy, eg Skull Traps or super-powerful custom party. I'm also using Item Revisions (among other things it downgrades all +6 weapons to +5 and changes the Reflection Shield so that it only deflects) and the nerfed Planetars from Spell Revisions.

I've got the hang of killing at least four of the Five without too much trouble thanks to Time Stop scrolls. Melissan herself seems to be really difficult to damage due to low AC and her Absolute Immunity. She would probably still be manageable but things get totally out of hand when she inevitably summons in two Fallen Solars and a bunch of Mariliths. The Solars are just ridiculous with their dispelling arrows and Creeping Dooms. Inevitably someone gets chunked.

So I'm curious to hear from anyone who's managed to get through this nightmarish battle.

Comments

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Alesia_BH has done so. With a solo character, no less. I recall doing it as well, with a party, but I barely remember anything about it.

    What's your party like?
  • RooksxRooksx Member Posts: 57
    Alesia_BH didn't do the Ascension version of the final battle, at least not in the posts on this forum.

    Charname is a Blade with Rogue Rebalancing. Sarevok who I Keepered to a 13 Zerker/Mage, Imoen, Viconia, Jaheira, and Irenicus (from the Longer Road mod but I nerfed him considerably so he's similar to Edwin).
  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
    I'm pretty sure @SpaceInvader did it, even if I haven't seen him here in a while...

    Anyway, this is what expects you while SCSII, Tactics, Ascension, solo, Insane. :mrgreen:
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    The fight is not that difficult if you keep your cool and realize what is going on at what point in time. Also using the special powers you gain wisely.

    Personally I found the Eclipse battle from the Solaufein mod harder, partly because it can be a bit dependent on getting good RNG. I also tend to struggle more with Hell Irenicus (largely because I refuse to abuse Spike Traps) but that one is probably a close call in terms of difficulty compared to Ascension. Next hardest on the list was probably Melanthium from the Planar Sphere mod, but that fight seems a bit weird and not properly done (as most of the mod, cannot really recommend).

    You have to consider, in the end, that this is the FINAL battle - meaning you have close to max level on everyone, all the most powerful items in the game, every last consumable etc. Once you start playing like there's no tomorrow (because really there isn't) you may find things improve considerably. I can for example strongly recommend all the good buff potions, especially with IR where most are not dispellable, all scrolls/wands you have left lying around (Protection from X scrolls, the dispel wands, etc.), and so on.

    Most important however is having a plan. As was mentioned, killing The Five in the correct order is crucial, for example, as is planning use of critical abilities like Time Stop etc. Identify the points in the fight that give you the most trouble, then focus on improving there.
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    whats the correct order for the five, did the battle with no scs and went a different route with balthazar first then illasera
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I should perhaps have specified; the "correct" order is more the "easiest order for your given setup". Some parties will want Illasera dead first, some Balthazar, some Sendai. Yaga-Shura is probably last, Abazigal generally somewhat late, too.

    As always in this game, things can vary wildly depending on what you have available. Solo runs will be quite different from full parties, etc. Heck if you go with something crazy like TS + Shapechange you may even kill Yaga-Shura first.

    What's important is that you try and identify what order works best for YOU, then do it like that. It is very easy to slip early on in the fight because some enemy gets out of control and you lose too much time, take too much damage, etc.
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 786
    edited June 2015

    I should perhaps have specified; the "correct" order is more the "easiest order for your given setup". Some parties will want Illasera dead first, some Balthazar, some Sendai. Yaga-Shura is probably last, Abazigal generally somewhat late, too.

    Agreed. There is no universal best order. Context matters. The best choice will depend on your playing style, party composition, and battle plan amongst other variables.

    I almost always end up targeting Balthazar, Illasera, or Sendai first. And since I often recruit Balthazar, it's usually Illasera or Sendai. Generally, characters with the Reflection Shield take down Sendai first. Those without, Illasera. It can vary though.

    Aside from order, another thing to consider is whether you want to use the Death's Door strategy. The Death's Door strategy entails bringing all the Five down to near death before killing any one of them. This simplifies the battle by delaying Mel's arrival. Some players, myself included, find this less satisfying, but it is an option. My F/M, Arcadia, recently demonstrated the Death's Door approach in the no reload challenge. That post can be found below. Note that this was a core run.

    http://forum.bioware.com/topic/124277-baldurs-gate-2-no-reload-challenge/page-468#entry18922231

    The point here had been to demonstrate a zero risk solo battle plan for no reloaders. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this approach to others, but it is something to consider if you're having trouble.

    Once again, I'd encourage you to share your attempts, Rooksx. The particulars matter. I and others will be in a better position to provide on point advice if we know the details. More importantly, there really aren't that many documented insane Ascension successes. It would be great to have another.

    Best,

    A.


    Btw.


    Heck if you go with something crazy like TS + Shapechange you may even kill Yaga-Shura first.

    I thought I should remind everyone that most of the five, including Yaga-Shura, have immunity to intelligence modification. I'd advise against trying TS->Shapechange: Mindflayer->Yaga first. My guess is that Lord Tansheron was just tossing out an untested idea in the context of illustrating another point. He may want to clarify what he meant.
    Post edited by Alesia_BH on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    edited June 2015
    Alesia_BH said:

    My guess is that Lord Tansheron was just tossing out an untested idea in the context of illustrating another point.

    Finally someone who understands what I'm doing, without me having to explain three times.

    Marry plz? K thx.

    I've never actually used stat-drain strategies against Yag. I remember reading about it somewhere, but that may have been with a different mod setup or whatever. Good to know it doesn't work, I find it fairly lame anyway.

    Completely agree on everything else you said, too. Death's Door is something I was aware of as well, but I never liked it. Not because it's easier or harder per se, but simply because there is already a lot of clutter in the fight and I am an incredibly lazy person. Pew pew pew finish things off and deal with Mel as she comes.
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 786
    edited June 2015


    Marry plz? K thx.

    I think I'll pass. I'd rather be merry than married. :smile:

    Completely agree on everything else you said, too. Death's Door is something I was aware of as well, but I never liked it. Not because it's easier or harder per se, but simply because there is already a lot of clutter in the fight and I am an incredibly lazy person. Pew pew pew finish things off and deal with Mel as she comes.

    Understood. Death's Door only becomes tempting when solo and even then usually at high difficulty levels or with under-powered characters. The advantage is that it minimizes your exposure to Mel and consequently mitigates risk via TS->Teleport Without Error->GWW and Bone Blades->PW:K. The_Truth's unkitted fighter (insane, pre-SCS) used Death's Door. I find it un-fun and exploity, even if I have caved in and used it from time to time.

    In installs where Greater Restoration affects all allies, Mel should cast GR as soon as she arrives.


    I've never actually used stat-drain strategies against Yag. I remember reading about it somewhere, but that may have been with a different mod setup or whatever. Good to know it doesn't work, I find it fairly lame anyway.

    Noted. Stat drain works, just not intelligence drain. Abazigal, Balthazar, Illasaera, Sendai, and Yaga all have innate immunity to intelligence modification. My Jester, Alisa, took Yaga down with Haer'Dalis's Chaos Blade. On the old-old forums, Saros's blade (insane, pre-SCS) used the Chaos Blade as well. If you've read Bioware threads, that may be where you heard about it.

    Anyhoo. I'm pretty certain we're not helping Rooksx here. Now would be a good time for a redirect.

    Does anyone else have insane Ascension experience that they'd like to share?

    Best,

    A.
    Post edited by Alesia_BH on
  • RooksxRooksx Member Posts: 57
    Thanks to both of you for your interesting thoughts on this. I'll post at greater length when I have more time, but to summarise my strategy has been Death's Door using a Simulacrum with Focus. I use PIs pre-battle to summon Planetars.

    After many tries, I think I've got the hand of killing The Five. My problem is now the Fallen Solars and all those Mariliths. Dragon's Breath is a spell I've never really used so I need to rejig my spellbooks. I thought the Solars were immune to fire damage though; is the difference that DB does magical fire damage? Would Fire Storms work as well? Because one thing I have in mind is using all those Planetars to cast Fire Storms when Mel summons her demons.
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 786
    edited June 2015
    It sounds like you understand the encounter and have a sense of what you want to accomplish on the battlefield. Congrats on that!
    Rooksx said:

    My problem is now the Fallen Solars and all those Mariliths.

    Got it.
    Rooksx said:

    Dragon's Breath is a spell I've never really used so I need to rejig my spellbooks. I thought the Solars were immune to fire damage though

    There are multiple fallen solar CRE files. Some are immune to fire, some are not. In my experience, the ones that Mel summons are not immune, although one of the two flaking Jon-Jon typically is. It could differ in your install. Test and let us know.
    Rooksx said:

    Would Fire Storms work as well? Because one thing I have in mind is using all those Planetars to cast Fire Storms when Mel summons her demons.

    If Dragon's Breaths work, then Fire Storms will work, but most demons are immune to fire damage. Even if the fallen solars are vulnerable the mariliths that have been giving you grief will not be.

    You may have noticed that Alicia used a lot of fire damage spells in the endgame, but those were intended to harm Mel and Mel alone. Alicia had made a tactical decision to ignore the demons. That may or may not be feasible in your case.

    Anyhoo. I look forward to hearing more when you get around to it! Feel free to post a full battle report on an attempt. There's no shame in posting a battle that doesn't end well. It's a great way to learn and a great way to help others learn.

    Best,

    A.

    Btw. Are you sure you want to use multiple planetars?
    Post edited by Alesia_BH on
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    I have done it just not on insanity. Ok let me tell you about my facepalm moment during this battle. Fighting the five, I didn't want to kill Abazigal, because I was super sure he would turn into a dragon once I popped his human form, so I have multiple people kite him, while I finish off the rest.
    So obliviously I have saved dispels to deal with his dragon shenanigans and then I finally kill him.
    Boom nothing happens, he just dies in human form.
    I facepalm'd so hard right then.

    Random question, could you guys save in between the fights? because I couldn't, and I still don't know if this is a bug or not.
  • YahveYahve Member Posts: 7
    I'm sure this isn't the right place to ask: but I killed the first lot of enemies (Solars, demons, Irenicus) and now nothing happens. Melissan is bathing, I can't get to the pools. What should I do?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Yahve This is a known bug on old versions of Ascension. Check the Ascension thread in the BG2 modding section. There might be an answer there.
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