Are Caveliers Strictly Better Paladins?
Lohengramm
Member Posts: 16
I get that they lose access to ranged weapons, but, if they are intended as one of my 2 main tanks does that matter at all?
Is that really the only drawback they suffer compared to vanilla Paladins?
Follow up question: How hard is it to get +1 strength from gear or level ups? Do you ever get stat ups from level ups?
The point being to get to 19 Str and not have to worry about not rolling 18/90+ ;o
Is that really the only drawback they suffer compared to vanilla Paladins?
Follow up question: How hard is it to get +1 strength from gear or level ups? Do you ever get stat ups from level ups?
The point being to get to 19 Str and not have to worry about not rolling 18/90+ ;o
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And any throwing weapon with a melee mode is usable by cavaliers, so you aren't even denied all ranged options.
And Undead Hunters can get the DUHM bonus too, so that's also an option. Inquisitors, obviously, cannot.
Overall I couldn't even say whether Undead Hunter or Cavalier is stronger given the breadth of the game and identical spells which is the strongesterk of being a Paladin.
Also strength items are plentiful. In the dwarf run I just finished, my two defenders, fighter/cleric and fighter/thief had str19 and my berserker and fighter/mage had 18/00.
There is one girdle, some nice shields and gauntlets that all improve strength.
Inquisitor suffers badly in IWD for reasons already stated in this thread.
IMO, cavalier is made a bit redundant by the fact that all paladins now get immunity to fear, and the inability to use ranged weapons is felt much more strongly in a game where hoards of enemies are being tossed at you from all directions - though if you have a couple of exceptional sharpshooters in your party already, you can probably get away with at least one character not being able to use ranged weapons.
Vanilla vs. undead hunter is really a question of defense vs. offense IMO - do you prefer someone who can heal instantly and save you from having to use potions or cleric spells, or would you rather have someone who does extra damage during the intermittent battles with undead?
So you think it is that important to be able to use ranged weapons even on a main tank? I was going to go Sword + Board on them w/ the special Paladin long sword you get later on. What kind of ranged weapon would you give them?
What kind of ranged weapon would you give each class?
I'm using an Elf Archer w/ Longbows and I have an Assassin I was planning to also use up close and personal with 3E Sneak Attacks.
But like I said, if everyone else in your party has ranged weapons with one or two standout sharpshooters, you can probably get away with at least one member not using ranged weapons.
If you do decide to create a vanilla paladin tank, I would recommend using one-handed melee and ranged weapons (like a long sword and a sling), so that you can also carry a shield. You'll want your lead-most tank(s) to carry shields - save the two-handed weapons for your archers, flankers, and sneak-attackers.
As for the debate, it's almost a wash. There is an argument to be made for ranged weapons, but personally I find that you quickly reach a point where it's problematic to maintain ammo on everyone. Also you can tank exceedingly well in IWD, meaning melees are actually fairly safe. Then there's the fact that there are several very good melee weapons, including the aforementioned Paladin-only one. All that considered, I personally find either Cavalier or Undead Hunter to be better overall than an unkitted Paladin; but by a fairly small margin. Small enough, in fact, that personal preference can push it either way.
Cavaliers have nice resistances, but lose access to ranged weapons, which are terribly powerful in IWD. Undead Hunters have great combat bonuses, but are made more vulnerable by the absence of Lay on Hands (healing potions aren't quite as strong or plentiful in IWD as they are in BG2 or IWD2). Inquisitors are strong as always, but IWD has so few mages that the Dispel Magic ability, however strong, doesn't get as many places to shine. Poison Weapon is terribly powerful, but a lot of IWD critters are undead and therefore immune.
Missile weapons, Lay on Hands, paladin spells, bonus THAC0 and damage vs. undead, and Dispel Magic all have good uses throughout Icewind Dale.
Also note that paladin spells are cast at 8 levels below their actual level, so Armor of Faith and DUHM won't be as strong as a cleric's. Plus, in IWD, a +1 bonus to STR won't get you from 18 to 19 like it does in the other IE games: it will only get you from 18 to 18/01, or 18/00 to 19. A level 18 Paladin is not going to have 24 STR by casting DUHM. He or she will more likely have 19, assuming he or she has a base STR of 18/51 to 18/75 (roughly the average for a high roll in my experience).
Blackquard is still a solid choice, but you would lose out on the Paladin specific dialogue or at least you should lose the paladin specific dialogue.
Meh I think it's a fair pick between Blackguard, Cavelier and Undead Hunter for IWD. I would probably lean toward Undead Hunter myself.
I guess it comes down to how you want to play. I'm neutral Evil type player, while you or whomever maybe like a pious “I'll save thou" type.