Well, do I ever feel silly now. Edwin's two time stop spells totally changed everything. He had memorized a veritable sea of de-buffing spells: ruby rays, pierce magics, breaches and remove magics, which kept the dragons more or less vulnerable. They'd get a round of protection from spell sequencer or contingency, which would then be stripped away the next round by Edwin, with Sarevok and Hexxat chiming in from the sidelines with breach and remove magic as well. (Use any item is SO useful a skill for a single class thief character, with the right scrolls/wands).
It was still a bit squeaky; I ran the combat a couple of times. It took all 5 of MCs whirlwinds and a bunch of heal potions each time, several comrades got killed a few times and Dorn got chunked once, but the time stops proved the turning point (Edwin had to use both of them, one for each dragon). Even our planetar managed to get a few hits in.
BTW, I had no idea, but I found out that planetars don't have to just attack physically; they have a huge spell selection that you can tap into if you click on them during a combat. Fun times.
If I had used Time Stop strategy 15 attempts ago, this thread wouldn't have been created. OH well, it had a decent amusement factor
On the other hand, if I didn't have access to time stop at all, I have no idea what I would do. Run the combat on baby difficulty level, probably. Although three characters casting de-buffs might be adequate even without the time stops.
Very first round of this combat session; thought I was going to get clobbered again. Time stop seems to take FOREVER to cast. Sarevok and Edwin are to the E-NE, Hexxat and Viconia down to the S, MC, Dorn, planetar and 2 skeletal warriors running in to melee with Ixy-whazzit. Then the time stop went off. Whee! Revenge is SO sweet!
Indeed, congrats on cracking this obstacle, @FrdNwsm.
Time Stop makes many things much easier, but I've got to say it's not essential. In the various tests I ran in the course of this thread, only once did I use Time Stop, and actually I did that in a seventh test after the six on which I'd already commented, just to make sure that what I was saying was true whilst I was in the middle of writing my post about the second batch of five tests.
With Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, the Robe of Vecna, and some de-buffs and Horrid Wiltings memorised, this battle is a piece of cake. In that last test, my front-liners killed Ixthezzys whilst Edwin was still casting Time Stop, and then (of course) he just unloaded his spellbook on Dolrassa and she dropped as soon as time resumed.
It is worth noting that I don't think FrdNwsm has the Robe of Vecna on Edwin, because of multi-party stuff. In fact, the general lack of good equipment on many characters is probably a main source of the difficulty here, if I had to guess.
"Time Stop makes many things much easier, but I've got to say it's not essential." " my front-liners killed Ixthezzys whilst Edwin was still casting Time Stop"
Well, I tried a fight without using time stop as well. You can do it, but you need to take precautions. I spread Edwin, Hexxat and Sarevok (my de-buffers) out widely so they couldn't all be taken out at once by a sleep breath attack, Viconia off to the south in a sanctuary with her heal spells, and everyone warded from dragon fear. Three debuffs every round will keep the dragon's protections manageable.
It's still a bit of a crapshoot though, depending on what actions they take. A wing buffet that knocks both MC and Dorn unconscious on round 2 puts a definite crimp in the battle plan. Luckily that doesn't seem to happen that often.
It is worth noting that I don't think FrdNwsm has the Robe of Vecna on Edwin, because of multi-party stuff. In fact, the general lack of good equipment on many characters is probably a main source of the difficulty here, if I had to guess.
Indeed, my good party has all the best equipment; the Bad Boyz have all second rate stuff, except for Dorn's anti-Carsomyr and Viconia's star mace +5. Well, MC of course has all the same gear, which makes him the go-to guy for any serious melee combat.
It is worth noting that NEITHER group has the robe of Vecna; have we missed that somewhere along the line, or have we simply not encountered that scenario yet?
Oh really? Hm. Maybe I should've mentioned that in one of the other threads when I was pointing out various things you might miss. Yeah, it's actually sold in a store in Athkatla. One of the merchants in the back of the Adventurer's Mart. Costs a pretty penny, of course, but it's generally considered the best robe in the game for everyone but Neera.
@FrdNwsm - pity you missed the Robe of Vecna, it's good kit. Since you haven't seen it, its main effect is that it reduces casting time. Still only one spell per round (except under Improved Alacrity or NRD), but that one spell fires much earlier in the round ... so that (for example) you can disrupt the enemy before the enemy can disrupt you, or get off your Time Stop before he gets off his, and so on. This can make all the difference!
@FrdNwsm - pity you missed the Robe of Vecna, it's good kit. Since you haven't seen it, its main effect is that it reduces casting time. Still only one spell per round (except under Improved Alacrity or NRD), but that one spell fires much earlier in the round ... so that (for example) you can disrupt the enemy before the enemy can disrupt you, or get off your Time Stop before he gets off his, and so on. This can make all the difference!
"(except under Improved Alacrity or NRD)" or Daer'Ragh Aura Cleansing
And so it was; between Hexxat's traps and Edwin's timestops and MC's anger management issues, the last defenders of Watcher's Keep fell.
OK, apparently Hexxat's traps are considered magical in nature, so magical resistance applies; some of them escaped damage that way. They didn't simply evaporate the way the fire giants did. But enough damage was done that we had a significant leg up in the ensuing combat. The imprisoned one will soon be free! Or dead, depending on our mood.
Sorry, guys, you are on your own here. We had enough trouble with a couple of silver dragons. Heck, half my group LIKES the guy. No way we're going toe to toe.
Hey Odren! We killed that thing you were keeping prisoner. What's that? You want to go down and see for yourself? Hey, that's a great idea! Run down there right now!
Well done with the Final Guardians, and good luck with the Imprisoned One.
Tip: if you decide to fight the Imprisoned One (and we all try that at some point ), you may need some change of tactics. He might at first seem unbeatable, but actually there are several ways to win.
It was cheesy, but the room gives enough hints as to where the Imprisoned One will arrive that I knew where to set traps - a solid dozen or so. Pretty much took care of him instantly. Of course, I was roleplaying true neutral so (naturally pissed off by Odren's antics) I had him go in to check before renewing the seals.
Well, I really can't justify fighting him with this group. The good party might go for it, but they don't have anything like Hexxat's trap setting ability.
There's no spoiler there; if I were to fight him with the Bad Boyz, traps would play an integral part pf the battle plan, just like it did with the guardians themselves. But these guys are hardly a bunch of altruists; there would have to be a huge reward for them to be even slightly tempted to take such a risk, and there has been no hint of any such thing.
Actually, when I think about it, there is no justification for a good party to fight him either. The basement of WK isn't his own plane, killing him there would just free him to go back to his level of the Abyss. The best course of action for a party of either alignment would be to seal him back up in there. Screwing over Odren is the only variable part I can see.
In fact, Demogorgon should WANT you to kill him, and thus be freed.
Definitely there's really no reason to fight him at all, unless you're playing an extreme thrill-seeker or something. Personally, I like to fight him just for fun, and then load my game and do something sensible instead.
Comments
It was still a bit squeaky; I ran the combat a couple of times. It took all 5 of MCs whirlwinds and a bunch of heal potions each time, several comrades got killed a few times and Dorn got chunked once, but the time stops proved the turning point (Edwin had to use both of them, one for each dragon). Even our planetar managed to get a few hits in.
BTW, I had no idea, but I found out that planetars don't have to just attack physically; they have a huge spell selection that you can tap into if you click on them during a combat. Fun times.
If I had used Time Stop strategy 15 attempts ago, this thread wouldn't have been created. OH well, it had a decent amusement factor
On the other hand, if I didn't have access to time stop at all, I have no idea what I would do. Run the combat on baby difficulty level, probably. Although three characters casting de-buffs might be adequate even without the time stops.
And yeah, Timestop is fantastic.
Congrats!
Congrats
Time Stop makes many things much easier, but I've got to say it's not essential. In the various tests I ran in the course of this thread, only once did I use Time Stop, and actually I did that in a seventh test after the six on which I'd already commented, just to make sure that what I was saying was true whilst I was in the middle of writing my post about the second batch of five tests.
With Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, the Robe of Vecna, and some de-buffs and Horrid Wiltings memorised, this battle is a piece of cake. In that last test, my front-liners killed Ixthezzys whilst Edwin was still casting Time Stop, and then (of course) he just unloaded his spellbook on Dolrassa and she dropped as soon as time resumed.
" my front-liners killed Ixthezzys whilst Edwin was still casting Time Stop"
Well, I tried a fight without using time stop as well. You can do it, but you need to take precautions. I spread Edwin, Hexxat and Sarevok (my de-buffers) out widely so they couldn't all be taken out at once by a sleep breath attack, Viconia off to the south in a sanctuary with her heal spells, and everyone warded from dragon fear. Three debuffs every round will keep the dragon's protections manageable.
It's still a bit of a crapshoot though, depending on what actions they take. A wing buffet that knocks both MC and Dorn unconscious on round 2 puts a definite crimp in the battle plan. Luckily that doesn't seem to happen that often.
Indeed, my good party has all the best equipment; the Bad Boyz have all second rate stuff, except for Dorn's anti-Carsomyr and Viconia's star mace +5. Well, MC of course has all the same gear, which makes him the go-to guy for any serious melee combat.
It is worth noting that NEITHER group has the robe of Vecna; have we missed that somewhere along the line, or have we simply not encountered that scenario yet?
And if you don't think that's significant, you have no idea what evil I intend to perpetrate on those swine.
OK, apparently Hexxat's traps are considered magical in nature, so magical resistance applies; some of them escaped damage that way. They didn't simply evaporate the way the fire giants did. But enough damage was done that we had a significant leg up in the ensuing combat. The imprisoned one will soon be free! Or dead, depending on our mood.
Sorry, guys, you are on your own here. We had enough trouble with a couple of silver dragons. Heck, half my group LIKES the guy. No way we're going toe to toe.
Hey Odren! We killed that thing you were keeping prisoner. What's that? You want to go down and see for yourself? Hey, that's a great idea! Run down there right now!
::lots of snickering from Sarevok and Edwin::
Tip: if you decide to fight the Imprisoned One (and we all try that at some point
Jerk.
There's no spoiler there; if I were to fight him with the Bad Boyz, traps would play an integral part pf the battle plan, just like it did with the guardians themselves. But these guys are hardly a bunch of altruists; there would have to be a huge reward for them to be even slightly tempted to take such a risk, and there has been no hint of any such thing.
In fact, Demogorgon should WANT you to kill him, and thus be freed.