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SPOILERS (potential) Siege of Dragonspear plot ?

So I was watching parts of the twitch video for the announcement of Siege of Dragonspear, focusing mainly on the gameplay portions and skipping over the various Q&As, when something occurred to me. The following is probably way off and may even have been disproven by someone else or during the Q&As I skipped.

SPOILERS, for SoD AND the other games! This is my first time posting on the forum, so I really hope the spoiler tab will work.


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I believe Siege of Dragonspear will be connected in a plot-driving fashion to Icewind Dale. I base this upon one observation: At some point in the play-through, Abdel(*sigh*) meets an absent-minded dark druid, and, in a dialogue option I believe was unintentionally shown onscreen, Abdel(*sigh*) says that the purpose of the Crusade is (SPOILER!) to open a gate to the Nine Hells and release devils into Faerun. By itself, that's a HUGE SPOILER in my book, and I wish I hadn't seen it...

Now, if you're like me and have spent more time on Infinity Engine games than you care to admit, you might recall someone else with such hellish ambitions. I speak of course of our old pal Poquelin aka Belhifet aka IWD's mood-swinging narrator.

"But surely Belhifet isn't the only villain, devil or otherwise, with such dark plans in the Realms," you say. Well, maybe not, but a few things would, if not support, at the very least not contradict the theory that he may be involved. Like:

Voghlin the Vast. This new NPC hails from Icewind Dale, where Jerrod's Stone is located. Will his SoD back-story be that he woke up from a bender between Daggerford and Baldur's Gate, or could it be that he was somehow informed that history was about to repeat itself down south? He is a bard after all, so he's heard and shared the false priest of Ilmater story, maybe he heard a similar plot brewing down by Dragonspear Castle. His Black Pits 2 story doesn't offer any supporting or contracting facts as far as I recall.

The Crusade itself. A charismatic leader appears out of nowhere, builds an army claiming to be a force of good when in fact it isn't at all so you have to destroy it. Well, in addition to being SoD's plot in a nutshell, it also happens to be similar to Poquelin's plot and even more similar to Isair and Madea's. Those last two are not only Belhifet's children, but Icewind Dale 2's villains, who, get this, started their own crusade. Sure, they called it a Legion but like the Crusade it was filled with human outcasts, mercenaries, goblins, monsters, Red Wizards (at least one Red Wizard is mentioned in SoD who isn't Edwin) and others, it was built on the back of slaves (SoD shows somewhat unwilling workers and mentions "requisitioning" labor) and finally it was headquartered within an ancient fortress (the Severed Hand). So maybe 3rd time's the charm for the Belhifet clan.

The Year. 1368DR to be exact, 87 years after Belhifet's defeat, which we were told in IWD's epilogue resulted in his banishment for 100 years. Now, I know we're 13 years off here, but we can work around that. Maybe the sentence isn't enforced if a portal is open, or since we know from his exile that he's more reckless than his colleagues in Hell, he's forcing his way out. Anyway, this isn't solid but it could work.

The Shining Lady herself. Info on the site and in the videos say she has a mysterious, maybe even divine, heritage. I doubt another Bhaalspawn will be involved, so who's bloodline has she got? Well, if you consider the dialogue with the druid to be genuine and not a lie or mistaken statement by Abd...the PC, then her goal truly is to open a gate to Baator. That can only imply she is a devil herself or has devil blood as it would benefit nobody else. She could just be a cultist like Aec'Letec's buddies in Ulgoth's Beard, but the focus given on her unknown heritage makes it clear she isn't just somebody's cult leader.

I realize this is all very circumstantial. Even more tenuous examples include the fact that battling devils in SoD has been mentioned other places so that's got to be a prominent part of the plot. Finally, there's been precedents for crossovers: IWD1 already ties to BG2 and did you know the unproduced Baldur's Gate 3 plotline (which I got from Wikipedia so whatever) was supposed to have connections to Icewind Dale 2, with Iselore and Maralie making appearances? Pretty weak, I know, but that's why I googled and used the word "tenuous" earlier.

So that's my theory: Belhifet's kid or grandkid is trying to free him and his pals, and you have to stop her. But even if I am wrong, it appears that "some lady with unusual heritage" is trying to open a gate to the Nine Hells, so then what makes more sense: that parts Siege of Dragonspear ties in nicely with Icewind Dale EE or that basically it's just a mirror of Icewind Dale 1 and 2's plots with no connection. I imagine the full story will be much more nuanced and complex (how does that Bhaal's bridge from the screenshots fit it?) but I also think and hope IWD will be heavily referenced because I love that game and like crossovers. In any case, I'm sure the entire story will be very exciting and I can't wait to start playing!
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I welcome any thoughts on this theory or others you want to share. Thanks!
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Comments

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It would be surprising if a villain went to Dragonspear without wanting to do the thing you mentioned...
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Interesting theory, but

    descendants of Belhifet already appear in IWD2


    so it's unlikely Beamdog would go to that well - especially if

    IWD2:EE


    is a thing that might happen at some point in the future.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Quite an intriguing idea, @Calzad, and not impossible.

    However, @shawne is right about why they probably wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be doing it this way.

    But we'll know when we know.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 377
    Fardragon said:

    If we are making spoilerish guesses, I would go for this so called "shining lady" being Mellisan. It sounds just like her MO. The PC spoils her plots at Dragonspear and is in hot pursuit. But just before she can be finished off Irenicus' ambush occurs, so she escapes and changes her identity to start again.

    ...That actually sounds like an intressting Idea.. Good thinking ^_^
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Honestly, the entire plot of SoD is preventing me from becoming a forum mod. Sorry for breaking that to you
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 377

    Honestly, the entire plot of SoD is preventing me from becoming a forum mod. Sorry for breaking that to you

    Uhm.. I'm not that good at following a forum (damn you CN impulses! let me be LN =/ ) so I might
    have missed some stuff, would you mind explaining this statement to me? @_@
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @Arcanis

    Check out my name again and then the name of the expansion. I've been joking for awhile that it is all about me, due to me being Dragonspear :)
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 377
    @Dragonspear
    ...Ok, I think I'll go to bed now :D
    I blame my slowness on a lack of sleep ;-)

    just a question.. how does it feel to be besieged? And how does it feel that so many ppl in the forums want
    to carry and use you?

    Aaaand good night ^^ *runs away*
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2015
    As an alternative, the artwork on the main SoD page reminds me of the "Paladin in Hell" artwork from the old AD&D book.

    Given that "doors open both ways" it could be that the Shining Lady is a (bhaalspawn?) Paladin who wants to attack Hell itself.

    A lawful good antagonist would make an interesting change.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,724
    I believe @Calzad is right. Phillip Daigle said the time IWDEE was released that the Adventure Y is somehow related to something in IWDEE. So, I fully approve the OP's suggestion.

    "Adventure Y has some interesting ties to Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, so I recommend picking that up if you're excited for this"

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/565562/#Comment_565562
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    I was hoping the villian would be Eldrith the Betrayer you know when she lays seige to baldurs gate the eventually leads to her death and her spot light in Dark Alliance. But oh well,
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    bengoshi said:

    I believe @Calzad is right. Phillip Daigle said the time IWDEE was released that the Adventure Y is somehow related to something in IWDEE. So, I fully approve the OP's suggestion.

    "Adventure Y has some interesting ties to Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, so I recommend picking that up if you're excited for this"

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/565562/#Comment_565562

    According to Chris Avallone, the SoD antagonist aint evil though.
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015
    Fardragon said:


    According to Chris Avallone, the SoD antagonist aint evil though.

    Or maybe she is, but hides it with powerful magic like Belhifet did when he was masquerading as brother Poquelin in IWD. Or like Demogorgon did in ToB. It seems that greater demons can not only hide their alignment, but also take any form they wish. So I wouldn't be surprised to see Belhifet in SoD.
    Post edited by Aramintai on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The wording Chris Avallone used suggests she isn't a "hidden" evil (which is such a cliche). Belhifet and Mellisan could still be involved though. Mellisan is manipulating a Bhaalspawn Paladin to attack Hell in order to kill Belhifet on his home plane.
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015
    I doubt it has anything to do with Melissan, ToB suggests she only started actively meddling in protagonist's business after his/her arrival in Saradush.
    I'd rather it be some holier-than-thou lawful stupid celestial from the Upper Planes, haven't seen many of those as antagonists. Only Trias the Betrayer from PS:T comes to mind.
    Though they can be just as bad for the Prime Material planes with their "black and white" outlook.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2015
    Melissan would be meddling in some else's buisiness, not the protagonist.

    A lawful-stupid celestial wouldn't try and pass themselves off as human. It takes a full-on deity to continence that level of dishonesty.
  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    edited July 2015
    What are the chances the Shinning Lady being an Aasimar or a Solar?
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015
    Fardragon said:


    A lawful-stupid celestial wouldn't try and pass themselves off as human.

    Is there any solid confirmation that she is in fact human and not in disguise? From her picture I'd say her eyes definetly do not look human. She also could be some diety's proxy for all we know.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 377
    @Aramintai Well, remember that Sarevok also has (or had) glwoing eyes.
    maybe that is the sign of embracing divine heritage (aided with rituals).
    While Charname can technicly embrace Bhaals-essence, he never got the rituals
    Sarevok got through... His Bhaalite mentor W. (forgot his name =P) . ^^
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    A Cyricspawn, perhaps?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    She's actually just Spawn.
  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    edited July 2015
    @Fardragon, what is wrong with a lawful good celestial passing as a human? Do you know Jesus?
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    Dee said:

    She's actually just Spawn.

    Lol, sounds ominous.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Vitor said:

    @Fardragon, what is wrong with a lawful good celestial passing as a human? Do you know Jesus?

    Chaotic Good human passed off as a diety by his followers.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 377
    Fardragon said:

    Vitor said:

    @Fardragon, what is wrong with a lawful good celestial passing as a human? Do you know Jesus?

    Chaotic Good human passed off as a diety by his followers.
    ...Pls keep RL religions out of this, because such comments can easily became pretty insulting and
    I don't think such is befitting this otherwise polite place.
    (I'll just assume you don't mean it as an insult, though seeing you write this creates an weird & uneasy
    feeling in my stomach.)
  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    edited July 2015
    Fardragon said:

    Vitor said:

    @Fardragon, what is wrong with a lawful good celestial passing as a human? Do you know Jesus?

    Chaotic Good human passed off as a diety by his followers.
    Well, in my opinion it's clearly lawful good (and I'm not a religious person. I just talk about it as I would talk about any character of any mythology).

    It doesn't mean a lawful character can't lie and a chaotic character can't always tell the truth. Alignments are much wider. But, again, hiding your true appearance isn't lying. A Paladin does have a code of conduct to always tell the truth. But he's not obligated to reveal it all the time. Instead of lying, he can in fact omit. And, still, if asked directly, he can answer "I can't answer you this" or "In time it'll be revelead".

    So, alignment is not synonymous to stereotype, and is much wider than players usually thinks. Characters of the same alignment can react very different from identical circumstances.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Recent comments By Chris Avallone and others have caused me to make some major deductions about the plot of SoD. Now this involves a lot of reading between the lines, and could be completely wrong, but I will use spoiler tags just in case I'm not.

    [spoiler]
    Chris Avallone says this:
    In short, they pay a lot of respect to BG1 and BG2, they make a smooth transition between the two, and they made (in my opinion) a lot of hard writing and development choices to honor that transition that other developers may have solved through short cuts, and I was impressed they didn't .
    @MrWakka raised this BG1 loose end:
    Sure, Sarevok was the major mover and shaker, and primarily he used the Iron Throne to do it, but... Where did he find all those Doppelgangers? How did he get them on his side? and don't they represent a far more sinister threat than some shining lady? This is a well organized and effective group of shallar, and unless I've missed it, it is never really explained how or why they are working with Sarevok.

    Doppelgangers in BG1 have infiltrated three major trading groups, impersonated every noble guest at the dukes palace, infiltrated one of the most highly guarded citadels on the sword coast (Candlekeep) and have shown a history in the region of wrecking stuff what with Durlag's Tower storyline having them infiltrate that as well.
    -https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42562/will-sod-answer-the-major-question-of-bg1#latest

    Deduction: If Beamdog have been as thorough as CA says, they won't have overlooked this.

    CA also says:
    a number of the refugees from Caelar's/the Shining Lady's Crusade seem strangely resolved and fine with being dislocated from their homes.
    and
    Siege of Dragonspear does it even better by including a brand-new hero, who's an antagonist, but arguably doing a better job than you
    Deduction: The Shining Lady has defeated a full scale doppelgänger invasion. Meanwhile, surviving doppelgängers, disguised as refugees, have infiltrated Baldur's Gate under CHARNAME's nose. This would tie into the information we already have that the first thing CHARNAME has to do is defeat Saravok's surviving followers in Baldur's Gate. It also gives an answer to the question "if the Shining Lady is besieging Dragonspear Castle, who is defending it?"

    [/spoiler]
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