SPOILERS (potential) Siege of Dragonspear plot ?
Calzad
Member Posts: 1
So I was watching parts of the twitch video for the announcement of Siege of Dragonspear, focusing mainly on the gameplay portions and skipping over the various Q&As, when something occurred to me. The following is probably way off and may even have been disproven by someone else or during the Q&As I skipped.
SPOILERS, for SoD AND the other games! This is my first time posting on the forum, so I really hope the spoiler tab will work.
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I believe Siege of Dragonspear will be connected in a plot-driving fashion to Icewind Dale. I base this upon one observation: At some point in the play-through, Abdel(*sigh*) meets an absent-minded dark druid, and, in a dialogue option I believe was unintentionally shown onscreen, Abdel(*sigh*) says that the purpose of the Crusade is (SPOILER!) to open a gate to the Nine Hells and release devils into Faerun. By itself, that's a HUGE SPOILER in my book, and I wish I hadn't seen it...
Now, if you're like me and have spent more time on Infinity Engine games than you care to admit, you might recall someone else with such hellish ambitions. I speak of course of our old pal Poquelin aka Belhifet aka IWD's mood-swinging narrator.
"But surely Belhifet isn't the only villain, devil or otherwise, with such dark plans in the Realms," you say. Well, maybe not, but a few things would, if not support, at the very least not contradict the theory that he may be involved. Like:
Voghlin the Vast. This new NPC hails from Icewind Dale, where Jerrod's Stone is located. Will his SoD back-story be that he woke up from a bender between Daggerford and Baldur's Gate, or could it be that he was somehow informed that history was about to repeat itself down south? He is a bard after all, so he's heard and shared the false priest of Ilmater story, maybe he heard a similar plot brewing down by Dragonspear Castle. His Black Pits 2 story doesn't offer any supporting or contracting facts as far as I recall.
The Crusade itself. A charismatic leader appears out of nowhere, builds an army claiming to be a force of good when in fact it isn't at all so you have to destroy it. Well, in addition to being SoD's plot in a nutshell, it also happens to be similar to Poquelin's plot and even more similar to Isair and Madea's. Those last two are not only Belhifet's children, but Icewind Dale 2's villains, who, get this, started their own crusade. Sure, they called it a Legion but like the Crusade it was filled with human outcasts, mercenaries, goblins, monsters, Red Wizards (at least one Red Wizard is mentioned in SoD who isn't Edwin) and others, it was built on the back of slaves (SoD shows somewhat unwilling workers and mentions "requisitioning" labor) and finally it was headquartered within an ancient fortress (the Severed Hand). So maybe 3rd time's the charm for the Belhifet clan.
The Year. 1368DR to be exact, 87 years after Belhifet's defeat, which we were told in IWD's epilogue resulted in his banishment for 100 years. Now, I know we're 13 years off here, but we can work around that. Maybe the sentence isn't enforced if a portal is open, or since we know from his exile that he's more reckless than his colleagues in Hell, he's forcing his way out. Anyway, this isn't solid but it could work.
The Shining Lady herself. Info on the site and in the videos say she has a mysterious, maybe even divine, heritage. I doubt another Bhaalspawn will be involved, so who's bloodline has she got? Well, if you consider the dialogue with the druid to be genuine and not a lie or mistaken statement by Abd...the PC, then her goal truly is to open a gate to Baator. That can only imply she is a devil herself or has devil blood as it would benefit nobody else. She could just be a cultist like Aec'Letec's buddies in Ulgoth's Beard, but the focus given on her unknown heritage makes it clear she isn't just somebody's cult leader.
I realize this is all very circumstantial. Even more tenuous examples include the fact that battling devils in SoD has been mentioned other places so that's got to be a prominent part of the plot. Finally, there's been precedents for crossovers: IWD1 already ties to BG2 and did you know the unproduced Baldur's Gate 3 plotline (which I got from Wikipedia so whatever) was supposed to have connections to Icewind Dale 2, with Iselore and Maralie making appearances? Pretty weak, I know, but that's why I googled and used the word "tenuous" earlier.
So that's my theory: Belhifet's kid or grandkid is trying to free him and his pals, and you have to stop her. But even if I am wrong, it appears that "some lady with unusual heritage" is trying to open a gate to the Nine Hells, so then what makes more sense: that parts Siege of Dragonspear ties in nicely with Icewind Dale EE or that basically it's just a mirror of Icewind Dale 1 and 2's plots with no connection. I imagine the full story will be much more nuanced and complex (how does that Bhaal's bridge from the screenshots fit it?) but I also think and hope IWD will be heavily referenced because I love that game and like crossovers. In any case, I'm sure the entire story will be very exciting and I can't wait to start playing!
.
.
.
.
I welcome any thoughts on this theory or others you want to share. Thanks!
SPOILERS, for SoD AND the other games! This is my first time posting on the forum, so I really hope the spoiler tab will work.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I believe Siege of Dragonspear will be connected in a plot-driving fashion to Icewind Dale. I base this upon one observation: At some point in the play-through, Abdel(*sigh*) meets an absent-minded dark druid, and, in a dialogue option I believe was unintentionally shown onscreen, Abdel(*sigh*) says that the purpose of the Crusade is (SPOILER!) to open a gate to the Nine Hells and release devils into Faerun. By itself, that's a HUGE SPOILER in my book, and I wish I hadn't seen it...
Now, if you're like me and have spent more time on Infinity Engine games than you care to admit, you might recall someone else with such hellish ambitions. I speak of course of our old pal Poquelin aka Belhifet aka IWD's mood-swinging narrator.
"But surely Belhifet isn't the only villain, devil or otherwise, with such dark plans in the Realms," you say. Well, maybe not, but a few things would, if not support, at the very least not contradict the theory that he may be involved. Like:
Voghlin the Vast. This new NPC hails from Icewind Dale, where Jerrod's Stone is located. Will his SoD back-story be that he woke up from a bender between Daggerford and Baldur's Gate, or could it be that he was somehow informed that history was about to repeat itself down south? He is a bard after all, so he's heard and shared the false priest of Ilmater story, maybe he heard a similar plot brewing down by Dragonspear Castle. His Black Pits 2 story doesn't offer any supporting or contracting facts as far as I recall.
The Crusade itself. A charismatic leader appears out of nowhere, builds an army claiming to be a force of good when in fact it isn't at all so you have to destroy it. Well, in addition to being SoD's plot in a nutshell, it also happens to be similar to Poquelin's plot and even more similar to Isair and Madea's. Those last two are not only Belhifet's children, but Icewind Dale 2's villains, who, get this, started their own crusade. Sure, they called it a Legion but like the Crusade it was filled with human outcasts, mercenaries, goblins, monsters, Red Wizards (at least one Red Wizard is mentioned in SoD who isn't Edwin) and others, it was built on the back of slaves (SoD shows somewhat unwilling workers and mentions "requisitioning" labor) and finally it was headquartered within an ancient fortress (the Severed Hand). So maybe 3rd time's the charm for the Belhifet clan.
The Year. 1368DR to be exact, 87 years after Belhifet's defeat, which we were told in IWD's epilogue resulted in his banishment for 100 years. Now, I know we're 13 years off here, but we can work around that. Maybe the sentence isn't enforced if a portal is open, or since we know from his exile that he's more reckless than his colleagues in Hell, he's forcing his way out. Anyway, this isn't solid but it could work.
The Shining Lady herself. Info on the site and in the videos say she has a mysterious, maybe even divine, heritage. I doubt another Bhaalspawn will be involved, so who's bloodline has she got? Well, if you consider the dialogue with the druid to be genuine and not a lie or mistaken statement by Abd...the PC, then her goal truly is to open a gate to Baator. That can only imply she is a devil herself or has devil blood as it would benefit nobody else. She could just be a cultist like Aec'Letec's buddies in Ulgoth's Beard, but the focus given on her unknown heritage makes it clear she isn't just somebody's cult leader.
I realize this is all very circumstantial. Even more tenuous examples include the fact that battling devils in SoD has been mentioned other places so that's got to be a prominent part of the plot. Finally, there's been precedents for crossovers: IWD1 already ties to BG2 and did you know the unproduced Baldur's Gate 3 plotline (which I got from Wikipedia so whatever) was supposed to have connections to Icewind Dale 2, with Iselore and Maralie making appearances? Pretty weak, I know, but that's why I googled and used the word "tenuous" earlier.
So that's my theory: Belhifet's kid or grandkid is trying to free him and his pals, and you have to stop her. But even if I am wrong, it appears that "some lady with unusual heritage" is trying to open a gate to the Nine Hells, so then what makes more sense: that parts Siege of Dragonspear ties in nicely with Icewind Dale EE or that basically it's just a mirror of Icewind Dale 1 and 2's plots with no connection. I imagine the full story will be much more nuanced and complex (how does that Bhaal's bridge from the screenshots fit it?) but I also think and hope IWD will be heavily referenced because I love that game and like crossovers. In any case, I'm sure the entire story will be very exciting and I can't wait to start playing!
.
.
.
.
I welcome any thoughts on this theory or others you want to share. Thanks!
9
Comments
so it's unlikely Beamdog would go to that well - especially if
is a thing that might happen at some point in the future.
However, @shawne is right about why they probably wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be doing it this way.
But we'll know when we know.
have missed some stuff, would you mind explaining this statement to me? @_@
Check out my name again and then the name of the expansion. I've been joking for awhile that it is all about me, due to me being Dragonspear
...Ok, I think I'll go to bed now
I blame my slowness on a lack of sleep ;-)
just a question.. how does it feel to be besieged? And how does it feel that so many ppl in the forums want
to carry and use you?
Aaaand good night ^^ *runs away*
Given that "doors open both ways" it could be that the Shining Lady is a (bhaalspawn?) Paladin who wants to attack Hell itself.
A lawful good antagonist would make an interesting change.
"Adventure Y has some interesting ties to Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, so I recommend picking that up if you're excited for this"
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/565562/#Comment_565562
I'd rather it be some holier-than-thou lawful stupid celestial from the Upper Planes, haven't seen many of those as antagonists. Only Trias the Betrayer from PS:T comes to mind.
Though they can be just as bad for the Prime Material planes with their "black and white" outlook.
A lawful-stupid celestial wouldn't try and pass themselves off as human. It takes a full-on deity to continence that level of dishonesty.
maybe that is the sign of embracing divine heritage (aided with rituals).
While Charname can technicly embrace Bhaals-essence, he never got the rituals
Sarevok got through... His Bhaalite mentor W. (forgot his name =P) . ^^
I don't think such is befitting this otherwise polite place.
(I'll just assume you don't mean it as an insult, though seeing you write this creates an weird & uneasy
feeling in my stomach.)
It doesn't mean a lawful character can't lie and a chaotic character can't always tell the truth. Alignments are much wider. But, again, hiding your true appearance isn't lying. A Paladin does have a code of conduct to always tell the truth. But he's not obligated to reveal it all the time. Instead of lying, he can in fact omit. And, still, if asked directly, he can answer "I can't answer you this" or "In time it'll be revelead".
So, alignment is not synonymous to stereotype, and is much wider than players usually thinks. Characters of the same alignment can react very different from identical circumstances.
[spoiler]
Chris Avallone says this: @MrWakka raised this BG1 loose end: -https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42562/will-sod-answer-the-major-question-of-bg1#latest
Deduction: If Beamdog have been as thorough as CA says, they won't have overlooked this.
CA also says: and Deduction: The Shining Lady has defeated a full scale doppelgänger invasion. Meanwhile, surviving doppelgängers, disguised as refugees, have infiltrated Baldur's Gate under CHARNAME's nose. This would tie into the information we already have that the first thing CHARNAME has to do is defeat Saravok's surviving followers in Baldur's Gate. It also gives an answer to the question "if the Shining Lady is besieging Dragonspear Castle, who is defending it?"
[/spoiler]