SoD XP Cap

Dragonfolk2000

Do we know what it is? And once somebody knows can we add that to the thread with everything we know so far about SoD?

Permidion_Stark

And once we do know the XP cap can someone work out a way of removing it.

Gallowglass

All that has been confirmed so far is that the highest level which any class can reach will be level 12. The XP cap must therefore be less than 660K (because otherwise Rogues could reach level 13).

Indications are building up that it'll be enough for Druids (300K) and Rogues (440K) to reach level 12, but not enough for other classes. My current guess is that it'll be only just enough for Rogues to reach level 12 ... so 441K.

Wowo

Gallowglass said:

All that has been confirmed so far is that the highest level which any class can reach will be level 12. The XP cap must therefore be less than 660K (because otherwise Rogues could reach level 13).

Indications are building up that it'll be enough for Druids (300K) and Rogues (440K) to reach level 12, but not enough for other classes. My current guess is that it'll be only just enough for Rogues to reach level 12 ... so 441K.

If Druids can reach level 12 then clerics should be able to reach 11 to not have too big of a power differential but that would push thieves to 13. Maybe it'll be an IWD style level cap rather than an xp cap?

[Deleted User]

That seems a reasonable guess. BG2 has versions of the various NPCs that join at 400k experience, so placing the level cap somewhere in that vicinity would mean not having players recruiting NPCs very far behind their level.

Adul

Permidion_Stark said:

And once we do know the XP cap can someone work out a way of removing it.

I don't know if completely removing it is an option, but you can probably raise it to an absurd number by editing XPCAP.2DA and STARTARE.2DA, same as before.

Faydark

Wowo said:

Maybe it'll be an IWD style level cap rather than an xp cap?

I don't have the link handy, but in one of the threads on this forum one of the devs confirmed that it was an xp cap, and that "some classes" would be able to reach level 12.

GreenWarlock

441k as an xp cap would be really screwing over clerics again. The 161k cap in BG means clerics cap the earliest, and 110k, and the final 51k xp they would have done almost anything for at the start of the game is quite useless to them (but not the rest of the party).

A cap between 440k and 450k would be unreasonably mean, and level 10 as a cleric is hardly game-breaking. A cap between 450k and 500k screws over fighters, who would see 89k of usable xp in the expansion, which is likely to be much less than half of what is available, probably less than a quarter. So I'm hoping for the cap to hit just over 500k.

The next breakpoint is 600k for rangers and paladins, but that is looking a bit of a stretch. They were served will with a 161k cap in TotSC, which means they still need to earn another 140k xp to get their level gain in SoD. That is only 1/2 way to a 440k cap though, so another group that would feel hard done by if the cap does not grant their second level. However, having only 2 classes miss out and gain just one level does not seem awful compared to missing for most, and you go into those classes knowing that level progression is tougher than for other classes.

So I'm calling it at close to 500k, let's say 511k xp. That would allow for some interesting dual-class flirtations gaining 3 or 4 levels in the first class without impacting end-game level of the second.

Anyone else want to predict the number?

Wowo

Faydark said:

Wowo said:

Maybe it'll be an IWD style level cap rather than an xp cap?

I don't have the link handy, but in one of the threads on this forum one of the devs confirmed that it was an xp cap, and that "some classes" would be able to reach level 12.

Fair enough. Just means Druids will hit level 12 while Clerics will be stuck at 10. Even Jaheira will get level 6 Druid spells at Druid 11.

Fardragon

Not much you can do about druids without changing their xp tables. SoD is stuck in the level range where they gain levels at a silly rate, before they switch into dead slow in SoA.

My guess is the cap will be 601,000, but it will only be reachable by extensive farming of respawning enemies. Are we running a sweepstake? What do I get if I win?

RAM021

Had they been willing to hit level 13, 750k would have been an ideal break point:
Bard/Thief = 13
Druid = 13
Mage/Sorc = 12
Cleric/Monk = 11
Fighter/Barb = 11
Pal/Rgr = 10
Multis do very nicely @ 375k/250k as well.


In any event, as level 12 is (unfortunately) the max, that sets the upper limit of XP @ 660k. As 600k would grant every class 2 level ups, an XP cap in the ~600k-650k range would be very appropriate. 300k/200k are decent multi break points. Finally, 600k works with imports from the Black Pits as well.

~610k for SoD XP cap!

GreenWarlock

Sweepstakes? Maybe we can persuade the mods to chip in a prescient badge for the closest, or for all within a certain threshold, like 5k or so?

What do you say, @Amber_Scott , @Dee, @elminster?

(probably asking for it kills any chance though, AFAICT they like to award prescient after-the-event and without warning)

Adul

So my question is this: regardless of where the SoD XP cap is, will this raise in starting XP be addressed in some way in BG2?

Will we lose any excess XP over 161k? Or will the starting areas be made more difficult for higher level parties? Will the game compensate with, for example, reduced quest XP rewards for higher level characters, or something along those lines?

GreenWarlock

You can already start SoA with more than 161k xp, if you want to experiment with the effect. One way is "New game+" style, restarting the game with a character who has already ventured into Athkatla. A new way added by BGEE was to take characters who have played through The Black Pits, which has an xp cap varying between 160k xp to 600k xp depending on class. My experience with BP characters is that it does make the starting areas easier, especially the first couple of quests you choose out of Jonnie's Place, but is not significantly unbalancing as, depending on quest order in Chapters 2/3, you can hit those same quests with higher xp levels anyway. It may mean the difference between having HLAs at the end of the game or not though, depending on how much of a completionist you are, and whether you tackle Watcher's Keep in SoA or ToB (or how much in SoA).

It will have an impact a little like starting BGEE at level 2 (rather than 3 or higher) and I don't think that BG2 has the same low level excitement of simply trying to survive that BG low levels have.

It may trivialize a couple of early encounters though, such as the disgruntled party upstairs at the inn at the start.

Adul

That's true, plus you can already have a higher starting XP in BG2 just by playing through BG:EE normally, because the game saves any "invisible" XP after you reach the 161k cap. I don't know how much "invisible" XP you can get, but it's significantly higher than 161k, and you get it all back at the start of BG2. So this is already sort of a problem (if you see it as such), and I was hoping with the added layer of additional Dragonspear XP the devs would try to address this issue in some way.

And if not... well, that's not too much of a problem, either. Then it's modding time.

Gallowglass

Adul said:

That's true, plus you can already have a higher starting XP in BG2 just by playing through BG:EE normally, because the game saves any "invisible" XP after you reach the 161k cap. I don't know how much "invisible" XP you can get, but it's significantly higher than 161k, and you get it all back at the start of BG2.

No, it isn't saving all of the "invisible" XP, although I'm not sure what causes some to be saved and some lost.

Playing a very completionist BG1ee run, I can cap out a full party in Chapter 5, so that all of the Chapter 6 and Chapter 7 experience is "invisible", yet on importing to BG2ee my protagonist will get back only a few thousand points - IIRC, it's typically in the range of 5-6000 XP. That can't be all of what was "lost" to the XP-cap in Chapters 6 & 7, and it's not remotely enough to gain even a single extra level.

GreenWarlock

Not quite no levels, but almost. A fighter/cleric/mage will get an extra cleric level if they can hit 165k xp. I think that is the only class potentially affected by the odd extra-xp at the end. I /think/ what happens is that you get to keep xp after entering the final encounter, i.e., from Sarevok and chums. That is only a guess though - as you say it is far short of the excess I usually earn.

OzzyBotkins

GreenWarlock said:

So I'm calling it at close to 500k, let's say 511k xp. That would allow for some interesting dual-class flirtations gaining 3 or 4 levels in the first class without impacting end-game level of the second.
Anyone else want to predict the number?

I think about 500K plus a little extra would be a good limit
Fighters Barbarians max at 10th level
Paladins and Rangers 9th
Rogues and Bards 12th
Mages 11th
Clerics 10th
Druids 12th
Monks 10th
plus some multi class combos
Fighter/Thief 9th & 11th
Fighter/Mage 9th and 10th
Thief/Mage 11th & 10th
Figher/Druid 9th & 11th
Cleric/Mage 9th & 10th
Ranger/Cleric 8th & 9th
I think I got the math right

dunbar

Could the old Godlike XP cap remover from TeamBG (which I still use for BG1 when I'm playing a multi-class charname) be re-written to install in BG1.5 as well?

Mikey205

Ye I will install an xp cap remover for certain.

gattberserk

OzzyBotkins said:

GreenWarlock said:

So I'm calling it at close to 500k, let's say 511k xp. That would allow for some interesting dual-class flirtations gaining 3 or 4 levels in the first class without impacting end-game level of the second.
Anyone else want to predict the number?

I think about 500K plus a little extra would be a good limit
Fighters Barbarians max at 10th level
Paladins and Rangers 9th
Rogues and Bards 12th
Mages 11th
Clerics 10th
Druids 12th
Monks 10th
plus some multi class combos
Fighter/Thief 9th & 11th
Fighter/Mage 9th and 10th
Thief/Mage 11th & 10th
Figher/Druid 9th & 11th
Cleric/Mage 9th & 10th
Ranger/Cleric 8th & 9th
I think I got the math right

Its not fair to only restricted Ranger/Paladin to lvl up only ONCE in the entire new add on content while other classes enjoyed 2.

I would say 600K will be the perfect breakpoint, be it pure or multi-classes

BillyYank

I predict the cap will be 500,000 because it's a big round number.

Daevelon

dunbar said:

Could the old Godlike XP cap remover from TeamBG (which I still use for BG1 when I'm playing a multi-class charname) be re-written to install in BG1.5 as well?

I asked directly to the maker in the mod sections and he already confirmed that it will work like this without problems.
My opinion is that the system of hard level caps is totally unneeded.
There is anyway a soft level cap (if you don't grind) so why put it again?

GreenWarlock

Observation from the recent stream-casts: the character info page has changed, and just shows XP needed for next level, rather than total, but it looked like most PCs were closing on 200k xp at that point, but hopefully still relatively early in the game.

gattberserk

By showing the XP needed for next level, does it means that the cap for SOD is level capped rather than XP capped?

Because by implementing a 500K XP for eg, you wont know how close you are hitting the cap. Very Confusing for Beginner especially!


In fact I prefer the older way of showing the total XP that a character has all in all.

illathid

So do we know what the actual XP cap is now?

helmo1977

Permidion_Stark said:

And once we do know the XP cap can someone work out a way of removing it.

THIS

cmk24

helmo1977 said:

Permidion_Stark said:

And once we do know the XP cap can someone work out a way of removing it.

THIS

It has already been confirmed that the current mod for removing the XP cap will work with SoD (that bit of the game engine has not changed).

mlnevese

There is no reason for the current XP cap removers not to work after SoD release... if they add a SoD only Xp cap entry in the 2da files involved it'll be a simple matter to set it to -1 removing it as well.

CamDawg

XP cap removal in BG2 Tweaks/Tweaks Anthology already work, yes.