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Candle Keep a new beginning

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  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Adult is social. Mature is biological.
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Right, don't let my sloppy terminology confuse the issue!
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    The problem is no species would ever evolve with a biological maturity rate of 100 years. It's ridiculous. The opportunity cost of 50 to 70 years of caregiving would have the species wiped out. Even long lived species like a tortoise mature sexually in twenty years. For a caregiving mammal to take 100 isn't worth taking seriously. A culture that doesn't re ignite full rights is one thing, but physical maturity taking that long? No chance
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    That solution doesn't work PK2748, since it's even more implausible that all of these demi-humans would fail to recognise a mature individual as being an adult for such massively long periods of time, or that the individuals would go along with it. Gnomes are curious to a fault; If he's mature by age twenty then there's absolutely no way he's going to wait another thirty years to even start learning combat skills or practical abilities like it says in the book, it just wouldn't make sense. If an elf's sexually mature by age twenty then he could have sexually mature great-grandchildren by the time he's 80... and yet still be considered a child? It just doesn't work.

    These species did not necessarily have to evolve, either. They could have been created by the gods, and that's often the claim that's made where it comes to demi-humans and their racial pantheons.
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    So your argument is that Gnomish and Elven dieties are just really piss poor intelligent designers?
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    edited February 2016
    That's more something that you're reading into it on the basis that you disapprove of the notion of very long-lived creatures having proportionally lengthier childhoods. That's not an issue that I share.

    Maybe you're right that it's silly and I ought to be as bothered by it as much as you are, but even if I were... that doesn't change what I read in the books, and what I read in the books strongly implies that twenty year old gnomes are small children and not adventurers.

    Since only humans and half-elves meet the requirements for minimum starting age given in the PHB at age 20, they're the ones I find most plausible as CHARNAME.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Reconciling charname's backstory with certain classes and races is an exercise in futility. It's something you just overlook in the name of having more options.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    @Kilivitz

    Then the very same IP owners turn around and destroys that futility by writing a book and making it canon.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    @DragonKing While I understand our civilization's pretty keen on letting certain books spoil the fun for everyone, the novelizations serve no purpose other than being mocked or ignored.
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited March 2016
    @Kilivitz Same thing with the idea that Shorties can start off with 18+ Strength just like any ole 6-3 250lb Linebacker. [reference:USA-Football]

    "Gobbledygook erased" [See below]
    Post edited by Eadwyn_G8keeper on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Eadwyn_G8keeper What gobbledygook?
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    @FinneousPJ Agree mostly and I am editing out most of my comment. Which was probably about something completely outside of the forum. Cheers!
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Eadwyn_G8keeper , I like most of your class analysis for Charname, above, except for two things.

    1) You're willing to make up an NPC that doesn't exist in Candlekeep in order to justify Charname being a ranger (which is fine), but you're not willing to accept the presence of a Temple of Oghma, in a walled city devoted to libraries, and a real NPC priest who is on friendly enough terms with Charname to give away a 100 gp healing potion to Charname just for saying hello, as justification for Charname to have become a cleric? Methinks you maybe just don't like clerics. ;)

    2) Sorcerers do not have traditions, nor do they train. Their powers emerge spontaneously and reflexively, from some mysterious element in their distant bloodline, such as a celestial, a fiend, or even a dragon. They cast their spells through intuition, from innate power, and most of them roll their eyes at the book-learning and discipline required and advocated for by wizards. That's kind of the main roleplaying basis of the class, and generates stereotypes like Qara from NWN2.

    So, I think Charname's Bhaalspawn heritage makes access to sorcery very believable, as you said at first, although Charname's talent for casting through charisma-based sorcery would have likely troubled and caused tension with Gorion and Tethtoril when it emerged.
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited March 2016
    @BelgarathMTH 1) Agree about the indications that a Temple of Oghma and the Healing Potions support a Cleric Protagonist. What I pointed out was that the interactions with warrior types, Dreppin, Firebead et al had more personal content than those with the Priests suggesting familiarity. And of course no interaction at all with the Chanters. Nothing at all against Clerics - far from it. Love playing with Wand of the Heavens and a roving pack of Skellies!!

    2) As to your point about the non-existent Gamekeeper I would have to agree. That is completely different from the sort of in-game logic I was exploring. Mostly, as a long-term backpacker type, I just personally object to the idea of spending nearly 20yrs cooped up in Candlekeep Fortress but that has nothing to do with what class a Charname might be.

    3) I agree that there is nothing that argues against Charname being a Sorceror. But the line I was exploring ~ Whether the Prelude itself prompted certain Classes if one chose to look for such cues ~ was not intended to be anything like canonical, merely an interesting alternative way to begin.
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Just about anything can be rationalized, but there seems to be no indication that Charname has a particular skillset (most notably, casting ability). I think that the most likely options would be:

    Human Fighter: Not because of any particular martial training, but because it is a mundane class and he could use any weapon and armor types. Perhaps only one pip per weapon max at character creation.

    OR

    Human Thief: But only with skill points in Detect Illusion, since he probably is used to seeing such things having grown up around wizards. Gorion may have shown him to use a wand once or twice too.
  • MacHurtoMacHurto Member Posts: 731
    To me, the perfect Charname would be a human warrior or thief that dual classes to sorcerer at the start of BG2 after Irenicus tampers with his/her powers.

    Of course, it is not possible to dual to sorcerer, so you need to dual class to wizard, that doesn't make as much sense.
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