Candle Keep a new beginning
DragonKing
Member Posts: 1,977
So, I don't know if this has been asked already, but what class actually makes the most sense to you for the Charname?
I'm not asking what class you like the most, but based on how and where charname was raised, which classes would you actually expect him/her to be. You're also welcome to stay which classes makes the least sense.
As usual I'll start us off.
There are two classes that makes the most sense for me.
1 Wizard/mage- The man he calls father is amage himself and based off the thing we learned, Gorion did view charname as his son. So like many fathers who would want to teach their sons a trade or craft, it wouldn't be unbelievable for Gorion to help charname start studying magic. Even if Gorion didn't help him down that path, candle keep itself is a large library of knowledge! Magical or otherwise. If charname was allowed access to portions of the library then I can see him growing interest in it throw reading of times and stories.
Sorcerer- being a bhaal spawn has its perks, being born a Sorcerer who's power awakened at x age is quite believable.
Bard- growing up in one of the largest libraries in the realm, its would be more unbelievable that charname hasn't read many stories and lore of hereos and glory. A bard, a storyteller seems plausible even if it isn't as plausible as mage or Sorcerer.
Fighter- I think this may be a bit of a stretch, yea candle keep has guards but I don't believe majority of them are trained there. It's not unbelievable that charname could learn the sword from the guards, but there are just more believable choices.
I'm not asking what class you like the most, but based on how and where charname was raised, which classes would you actually expect him/her to be. You're also welcome to stay which classes makes the least sense.
As usual I'll start us off.
There are two classes that makes the most sense for me.
1 Wizard/mage- The man he calls father is amage himself and based off the thing we learned, Gorion did view charname as his son. So like many fathers who would want to teach their sons a trade or craft, it wouldn't be unbelievable for Gorion to help charname start studying magic. Even if Gorion didn't help him down that path, candle keep itself is a large library of knowledge! Magical or otherwise. If charname was allowed access to portions of the library then I can see him growing interest in it throw reading of times and stories.
Sorcerer- being a bhaal spawn has its perks, being born a Sorcerer who's power awakened at x age is quite believable.
Bard- growing up in one of the largest libraries in the realm, its would be more unbelievable that charname hasn't read many stories and lore of hereos and glory. A bard, a storyteller seems plausible even if it isn't as plausible as mage or Sorcerer.
Fighter- I think this may be a bit of a stretch, yea candle keep has guards but I don't believe majority of them are trained there. It's not unbelievable that charname could learn the sword from the guards, but there are just more believable choices.
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Comments
Paladin works because of the whole "raised on heroic tales" thing. Especially Cavalier, not so much the other two.
Cleric works if we assume that CHARNAME channels his own divine power, and there are Forgotten Realms precedents for this apparently.
"Violent" classes like Berserker or Assassin work because hey, you're a child of the God of Murder. Not everyone has it as easy as Imoen!
Classes that I can't see working out? Monk and Kensai are probably far too exotic. Dragon Disciple, just no. Ranger/Druid would be hard to explain if you spent twenty years behind the walls.
Barbarian is the most iffy one, but being one doesn't necessarily mean having a tribe as much it means being attuned to their rage.
Thief would be the cliché coice, since there are so many stories of adventures that have a thief as protagonist.
Fighter is a good choice too, because fighters can arise from anywere. If the character has high strength, he become to turn into a fighter still in childhood, when he start struggling with the other kids. A Fighter Lv. 1 is such a mundane character, that simple knows how to fight, wields a weapon and wear an armor.
The Wizard would be a fine choice too, because of the incredible library Candle Keep, in wich the protagonist has grown, and because of Gorion.
He also knew what you were from the beginning. What's in your blood. Therefore he must have accepted you could grow up to be a murderous, thieving, and vile human fighter/thief or a pacifistic half orc who loves nature.
Yes a druid or a ranger is difficult spending 20 years in a library. But it is doable. It's the call of the wild.
Evil maniac? Spend 20 years manipulating your foster father into believing you are something else.
You are surrounded by mages, clerics, and fighters. You could have been trained by them.
And many notabilities have traveled to Candlekeep and might have inspired you.
It's your character and your game. And therefore the limitations are your
Ranger is also less plausible, since it doesn't sound like you were allowed outside the walls. Druid is more likely, because you could learn that in a garden.
Blackguard also sound iffy. I have trouble imagining that you could make a deal with a fiendish patron without Gorion being aware. Although you could make that deal on the night when Gorion was killed to help you get revenge; that would make a good story.
In any case, you start level 1 so you only had basic training in whatever class you choose.
So I'm going to do something that annoys Gorion and that will impress the ladies. I'm going to become a Bard.
@Permidion_Stark
The class which is conspicuously missing from the canon party is that there's no Cleric, so to make a balanced canon party it has always seemed to me that the protagonist is intended to be a Cleric or part-Cleric.
A Cleric or part-Cleric also seems to me to fit particularly well with an upbringing in the monastic environment of Candlekeep.
However, we're also told in-game that the protagonist was quite a troublesome child at Candlekeep, which seems to me to fit better for a part-Cleric part-something-else ... perhaps the best fit of all is a Cleric/Thief. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that Cleric/Thief is also the best skill-fit for the canon party (given that Imoen canonically duals out of Thief at level 7).
It's ideal to have both classes represented when there's enough room, but any well-balanced party needs a Cleric (or part-Cleric) regardless of whether there's also a Druid (or part-Druid); having a Cleric is a higher priority for all-round capability than having a Druid. Obviously it's possible to play (and win) with any party regardless of balance, but an unbalanced party is making life more difficult for yourself.
Furthermore, since Jaheira is only a half-Druid, the canonical party is rather light on divine casting of any sort, unless the protagonist is at least part-Cleric. Even if Jaheira were a half-Cleric instead of a half-Druid, optimal party balance would still call for the protagonist to be another part-Cleric (or in that case, maybe a half-Druid instead).
And of course, the fact that the Druid is originally an optional class presented as a special variant of the Cleric. "The druid is an example of a priest designed for a specific mythos." Go check the AD&D 2e Player's Handbook if you don't believe me.
Everything else you said is subjective. You think there's not enough divine magic in the canon party and that's fine. I, on the other hand, always did just fine having only Jaheira. It's all about playing styles. When it comes to Priests I use them primarily as healers. Druids have plenty of healing spells.
I can see the protagonist and Imoen growing pretty much side by side. I always saw Imoen's canonical progress within the games, starting as a thief and then becoming a mage, as a reflection of her life in Candlekeep. A stalker protagonist would fit in a context where them and Imoen grew up together: they spent their childhood and teen years sneaking around Candlekeep, and taking some magic lessons with Gorion. While the protagonist liked to get some fighting practice with the guards in the Keep, Imoen spent more time at the inn and inside the buildings, picking locks and just being sneaky in general.
After the trauma of leaving their home and Gorion's death, they went by as they could until the company of the friends they made along the road, and the realisation of the nature of the threat behind them, brought them back to the magic lessons they had under Gorion and eventually they put it into practice, Imoen following this path more fully and the protagonist keeping their more fighter-focused role.
You also didn't mention that Clerics and Druids have very different permitted weapons, and that Clerics have unrestricted armour while Druids (except Fighter/Druids) have quite severe armour restrictions.
So as I said: they're mechanically quite different. This is entirely to be expected, since separate classes are meant to be mechanically quite different! I'll believe you that this may be how the concept of a Druid was first invented, but nevertheless what they ended up implementing was very different from a Cleric. Not so. Druid and Cleric are substantially different classes, not a direct substitute for one another, that's an objective fact. As I already said, it's possible to play (and win) with any party regardless of balance. The fact that you choose to demonstrate that you can cope with a somewhat unbalanced party does not in any way change the fact that the main ability-class not represented in the canon party (and therefore automatically the main lack of balance in it) is that there's no Cleric. How you choose to use your Priests is indeed a matter of playing style, and Druids do indeed have several healing spells (although not as many as Clerics), so it's true that these two classes do overlap quite a lot if you're using them just for healing ... but that's like saying that a Bard and a Thief "overlap quite a lot" if you're using them mainly to steal from pockets and stores (which obviously both can do). For buffing, for attack spells, for physical combat, Druids and Clerics are very different.
They play two very different roles, a Cleric's job for me at least is to buff, support, and heal. A druid job is more of a jack of trades. It seems to have a little of everything, but actually nothing it really excels in. But again, that's my personal experience with them, hell Jaheira ultimately just became my tank once I had Viconia.
Edit.
And lets be honest here, we are talking about a game where people do no reload solo runs on the hardest setting with the ARCANE CLASSES, so going through the game with just a druid as the Healer, really doesn't carry much water when people can solo it with a classes that are suppose to take take hits like 12 year old school girl hiding in the closet from her drunk alcoholic step dad.
And without our spells, we can be onshotted by just about every everything in the game, so yea my statement stands. Half the reason things like solo runs work is because most people that do them already possess clairvoyance (there is a better word that fits there but I just woke up and can't think of it now.) About, 1) nearly every enemy, so we preprep things like spells and items using knowledge that the charscter themselves would NEVER actually possess. 2) knowing the location of nearly if not, every item in the game, again something that the character themselves would not know.
Remove the players omniscience about the BG game and do a solo run on the hardest mode with the arcane. I don't care how powerful we are, we going to get one shorted once or twice. The same won't be said about the warriors for example, moat situations won't cause then to be one shotted, hence why my statement still stands.true.
Now for the rest of your argument:
There are four types of classes in AD&D: Warrior, Wizard, Rogue and Priest. Each covers a different role and a balanced party is supposed to have at least one of them. I know no one here's disputing that - the point of contention seems to be whether the Druid can effectively cover the Priest role.
And I'm saying yes, not only because the canon party demonstrates that, but because at the end of the day, the Druid and the Cleric are supposed to do the same thing in different ways. You seem to be confused as to what constitutes a major mechanical difference. Clerics and Druids are similar in every way except details which are not related to their primary function. Priests are divine casters with passable fighting skills. Variations in weapon selection and armor restriction do not change that. I find it very hard to agree with this statement. If you're talking late BG2, after stocking dozens and dozens of healing potions and acquiring several rings that provide regeneration, of course you won't be relying on healing spells. At low levels, you'd be gimping yourself by not having anyone who can cast Cure Light Wounds a few times. Unless, of course, you don't mind resting for weeks at a time between encounters.
I will concede that it wouldn't be wise having a Druid and not a Cleric in BG2. At this part of the campaign you're repeatedly forced to fight vampires and other undead creatures. Not having anyone able to turn undead or cast Restoration is a PITA. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says the Cleric is a much more useful (or even objectively better) choice.
That's not the case in BG1, though. Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid and Jaheira are a perfectly balanced and capable group in their own right.
Evincar the Half-Elf Avenger Druid
This half-elf was raised as a human, amongst humans, but has always felt a calling toward the wilderness and his elven blood. Evincar is not a particularly large or strong fellow, and his temperment is mellow. He is wise-beyond-his-years, and he, being charismatic, convinced Gorion to allow him to leave the Candlekeep walls daily to meditate in the woodland hills nearby. As his meditative practices increased, he grew wiser and more intuitive, but also grew less tolerant of the unnatural cities and man-made structures that destroyed the beauty of the earth. Evincar believed quite strongly that nature gifted its secrets to those wise enough to hear its quiet whispers, and began developing his talent for such divine magic at an early age. He had immense respect for Gorion's own abilities as well, even learning some arcane magic from his foster father. After seeing Gorion cut down, he vowed to avenge his death.
Mikhail the Human Priest of Lathander
Father Mikhail, as he is now called, grew up with a fascination for the divine. He spent years in Candlekeep reading and learning, studying the ancient gods, especially Lathander. When he was just 14, he was sworn into the faith, but his long hours of studying by the firelight led him to seek comfort in high quality meads. Before he knew it, he was secretly brewing his own honey-wine and drinking several pints daily while maintaining his work in the temple. He was an unusually imposing man for a priest – considerably larger than many of the Candlekeep guards. In fact, most everyone knew not to anger Mikhail while he was busy reading or tending to his duties, lest you get on his bad side. Mikhail has a low CON, but high STR and is prone to anger quickly; he will also require several pints of mead whenever the party spends the night at an inn.
Gohn the Human Barbarian
A lover of the wilderness by nature, Gohn never felt right within the walls of Candlekeep. He would sleep under the stars every chance he got, and purposefully tested himself physically and mentally. But the scholarly tutelage of Gorion was not lost on the barbarian, and he learned well how to control his body and mind, becoming ever-more one with the natural world around him. He knew himself not to be himself alone, but to be, underneath it all, the wild spirit of the universe. After seeing Gorion cut down before his eyes, despite his extensive knowledge of the arcane arts, Gohn's hatred for such an unnatural act grew strong – but his extensive body-mind training allows him to harness his rage against the arcane. He has unusually high INT and WIS for a Barbarian, and will only undergo “Rage” when fighting a magic-user.
Ranger actually fits well, in my mind. You learned weapons from the watchers, got good at the stealthy skills because Imoen is your friend (and was thus a bad influence), and the nature knowledge could have come from books. I'd imagine there would be quite a lot of wanderlust in such a protagonist, but the foundations for all of their Ranger skills can be picked up in Candlekeep.
As for a Blackguard protagonist, my personal take on it is that you HAVE no fiendish patron. Instead, you've been listening to that little voice in your head promising power for a long time. All of your dark powers are a manifestation of the mantle of murder, powers you willingly use.
From the game, I took home the impression that Candlekeep was a place of intellectual pilgrimage, and a medieval kind of convention centre. People went there from far and wide, for one purpose or another, and it does not strike me as odd that Gorion's Ward would have been interested in some of those travelers and created relationships with them, particularly the regulars. Surely there were regular visitors. They could have been from anywhere and been of any stripe. It's not implausible that our hero learned what they know from them, rather than taking solely after Gorion.
Gorion obviously cloistered the protagonist within the keep walls, but there was nothing in the game to suggest that he was so controlling of the hero's movements within the grounds, or that the hero followed his caution if he was.
Parents are not always the biggest influence on their children's development.
The opening describes Gorion as a wise man raising you on a thousand tales of
Heroes and monsters
Battles and tradigies
Lovers and infiedels
Gorien I believe is Lawful Good Mage so that is his influence on you
you age suggest that you are human or possibly half elf
Plus the only other person in your age group is your Neutral Good half sister and thief Imoen
So this is why I believe that CHARNAME is a Neutral Good Human Bard
If Hull had any influence in your raising then t mmight be a Bard Blade
The foreground presence of the Chanters of Alaundo indicate a sort of music in the air plus the jocular exchange with Winthrop certainly indicates familiarity with the Inn and its inhabitants. So Bard seems appropriate.
One suspects that sheerly out of boredom Charname has taken some interest in the Thief training ~ whatever that is/was ~ acquired by Imoen, so there could easily be an element of that.
Since Gorion is a Mage that lifepath is clearly indicated if sufficiently Intelligent. Supported by the encounter with Tethtoril involving Firebead's Scroll.
Ranger is unlikely according to the Swordcoast Canon but I always modify that description to make the Wards of Gorion an exception with the idea that there is a Gamekeeper in residence in one of the unexplorable buildings whom Charname and Imoen have accompanied on numerous nearby wilderness campouts to check traps and perhaps shoot a deer or two. So Ranger, at least for me, is not out of the question. After all we know the Canon description to be incomplete because one of the Guards mentions that it has been weeks since a caravan has arrived to restock Winthrop's Inn ~ thus it is clear that the tradition of having to present a valuable book to enter the Fortress is only approximately factual. Another point ~ doesn't Jondalar seem to be a Ranger type?? Look at how he is garbed.
I doubt Druid leanings as that tradition, in my head-canon, is not disposed towards bookishness at all, thus unlikely to be much represented in the Academic community of Candlekeep.
Paladin would be a natural development perhaps from the environment of Candlekeep. Though the surly nature of most of the Guardsmen's comments does not seem particularly high-minded and Paladin methinks must be a highly motivated character rooted in a tradition.....hmmm? The GateWarden certainly fits the bill though.
Sorceror makes much sense as something to which a Bhaalspawn would be drawn but I wonder whether he would have found any training in that tradition in the bookishness of Candlekeep.
Putting all that together I come up with my 6 most likely choices based on what is actually in BG.
1. Fighter-Mage-Thief
2. A Bard-Fighter mod.
3. Mage-Thief
4. Fighter
5. Fighter-Mage
6. Cavalier/Inquisitor
The biggest thing for me is race; If CHARNAME is only twenty years old, then he's below the 2nd Edition starting ages for halfling, gnome, elf and dwarf; and since these are parameters that let humans start out at age 16, that seems like a pretty big deal to me. Only human and half-elf (and maybe half-orc, I don't have a table for them) characters should be adult members of their races at age 20. You can always mentally fudge it or try to justify it in some way (the Bhaal in you makes it work different!) but it's a plausibility issue for me.
This would tally with what the Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings describes; 50 years of childhood followed by 50 years of adolescence before attaining adulthood at 100. A 51 year-old gnome would be a teenager and might get away with being called an adult in a human society, but a 20 year-old gnome is still a very young child and not at all suitable for play... unless it's the kind of play that comes with colouring books and wooden blocks.