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This is a banter in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition

Neera: Here you go.
Anomen: What is this?!
Neera: I was resistant at first, I'll admit, but once you brought it up, I couldn't stop fantasizing.
Anomen: You...! But I...
Neera: Do you want me to tell you what I imagined first? Shortbread biscuits with strawberry preserves! I know, I know. Not creative... but so delicious! Then I thought about glazed pears, mincemeat pies, puddings, gingerbread... but this sack! It's...
Anomen: Yes! A pound of sugar from Waukeen's promenade, as promised. Get cooking!
Mazzy: I would be no halfing if I didn't like cakes of all sorts. Bake me a seed cake, ANomen, and I swear I will be your stalwart sister-in-arms.
Jaheira: Anomen! I am almost embarrassed to request marzipan; it is so excessively sweet. But I do like it.

People actually defend this as good writing.
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I find a lot of the new writing too jokey/lighthearted for my tastes, to the extent that it's quite jarring with the mood at times. but each to their own I suppose. I don't play EE for the writing
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Anomen's good at baking cakes... Who knew?
  • pkmnpkmn Member Posts: 22
    ajwz said:

    I find a lot of the new writing too jokey/lighthearted for my tastes, to the extent that it's quite jarring with the mood at times. but each to their own I suppose. I don't play EE for the writing

    Yeah, I strongly dislike the new writing and the new NPCs. I really wish there was a way to disable the new content while still having the awesome UI improvements without having to worry about mods.

    The good funny/silly conversations in BG2 were always when either a funny character played off of a serious character (Jan + Anyone, Minsc + Anyone, Edwin + Anyone) or when clashing personalities interacted (Mazzy + Korgan). Not just "lol spork is a funny word" humor.
  • pkmnpkmn Member Posts: 22
    Arunsun said:

    Well that's Neera's personality, and it is the kind of personality that lacked in BG2. Like, innocence etc ... We had Imoen for this in BG1 but she understandably changed in BG2

    The problem isn't Neera, though she is annoying, intrusive (really, two unskippable scripted events even though I don't want her anywhere near my party?), and poorly voiced.

    The problem is the writing of Anomen, Jaheira, and Mazzy. It's fan mod level, and totally not in the character of any of them.
  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 440
    Hear that? It's the sound of the world's smallest violin...
    but I do agree, the writing quality is not in a style that fits with the rest of the game, which sucks.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited July 2015
    To be totally and completely fair, this is only part of a longer conversation: Anomen has been hitting on Neera non-stop, she turns it back on him and the other women in the party chime in. Is it in-character? Jaheira teases Edwina when she gets the opportunity, so...
    Post edited by shawne on
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    I don't know, it seems to work in context - presumably this is a banter that triggers if Anomen either hasn't taken the test yet or passed it, and he's using the same tacky "courtly" lines on Neera that he would on a female CHARNAME. I think that last one is something like "let me taste sugar upon your lips", to which Neera responds by dropping a sack of sugar in his lap (which is certainly the sort of thing she'd do) and letting Viconia, Jaheira, Mazzy, Aerie, Imoen and/or Nalia in on the fun. (I think even Hexxat gets to join in the ribbing.) It's a lot like the ToB banter with Dorn, Sarevok and Korgan where they talk about killing stuff and how they're going to drink the next tavern dry and burn it to the ground: a bit weird, but it's the same sort of team-building banter as when everyone (even Cernd!) takes potshots at Edwina.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    (shrugs) Well, as someone who has experienced the Anomen romance, I can say that the lines he used with my PC were nothing like the ones that were used to have him hit on Neera. As for “tacky” courtly lines, well that gets into personal taste and what one finds appealing within a romance.
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    So the joke is that Anomen (sort of) asks Neera to give him some sugar and she literally gives him a bag of sugar? Except then they mangle the delivery with all this talk about baking, which has nothing to do with what he said. Like I know humour is subjective but the punchline at least has to connect with the setup.
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    ANOMEN: Come, my lady, let me bestow a sweet gift upon your lips.
    NEERA: Okay.
    *SUGAR*
    NEERA: Get to it. I like cinnamon rolls.


    There. I fixed it.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited July 2015
    @Glam_Vrock: It does - the first time Anomen hits on Neera, he asks if she's ever been courted before. Her response is "I have a feeling I'm about to get a taste of that", to which he says "Feeling and tasting come later, dear lady." That's the setup, what she means when she says he brought it up. She wants food, and the other women are in on the joke.
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    edited July 2015
    Okay but I'm looking at the dialogue files now, and that's a much earlier banter. Later on he's like "blah blah blah let me taste the sugar upon your lips" and she goes "Tee hee okay I'll give you what you want", and that's supposed to segue into the shortbread thing. As if "gimme some sugar" meant "I want to make desserts for you." It doesn't work.
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    Oh wait, the exact line is "Let me ENJOY the sugar upon your lips", which I suppose could translate to "Let me enjoy the sight of you eating cookies," but only if you kind of unfocus your brain the way you do with your eyes when you're trying to make sense of an autostereogram.

    I STILL DON'T LIKE IT
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited July 2015
    The joke is that Anomen asks Neera to let him kiss her (by saying "Let me enjoy the sugar upon your lips"), Neera (knowing what he was really after) then takes his request and follows a literal interpretation of it (giving him sugar so he can bake her something).
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    I get that, but the literal interpretation of "Let me enjoy the sugar upon your lips" would be actually sprinkling sugar on your lips. He didn't just ask for some sugar. If he had, the joke would make sense. I don't know why I care so much about this but I do.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Well baking typically has sugar in it. Plus I think most people probably wouldn't be inclined to eat sugar raw (unless if it was like sugar cane).
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    edited July 2015
    My point is that you can't do a "take the metaphor literally" joke where you just invent something vaguely related to the metaphor and pretend that's what they meant. That'd be like if I said "Oh baby, let me be the apple of your eye" and she hands me a basket of Golden Delicious and tells me to make cider. It's too much of a stretch. Even Cleverbot wouldn't interpret it like that.

    EDIT:

    image

    See?!

    Also BRB, I think I just got a date.
  • iam040iam040 Member Posts: 3
    pkmn said:

    Neera: Here you go.
    Anomen: What is this?!
    Neera: I was resistant at first, I'll admit, but once you brought it up, I couldn't stop fantasizing.
    Anomen: You...! But I...
    Neera: Do you want me to tell you what I imagined first? Shortbread biscuits with strawberry preserves! I know, I know. Not creative... but so delicious! Then I thought about glazed pears, mincemeat pies, puddings, gingerbread... but this sack! It's...
    Anomen: Yes! A pound of sugar from Waukeen's promenade, as promised. Get cooking!
    Mazzy: I would be no halfing if I didn't like cakes of all sorts. Bake me a seed cake, ANomen, and I swear I will be your stalwart sister-in-arms.
    Jaheira: Anomen! I am almost embarrassed to request marzipan; it is so excessively sweet. But I do like it.

    People actually defend this as good writing.

    Too many words are wasted making the "I couldn't stop fantasizing" ''work''.

    Anomen must know what is being handed to him. He must recognise the whatever it is he is being given. This tells the reader what is going on. If Anomen says "What is this?!" then the reader is confused, too. Hell, it would even be better to start on Neera's line rather than include the 'What is this?!'

    He could say 'Ah! My bag of sugar, you remembered!' (or whatever, I don't actually know the circumstance)

    Then in the next part, he must enhance the joke, 'before I wanted to join the order, I would spend many hours helping my sweet, darling sister Moira in the kitchen, dreaming of running my own cakery!' ...OR whatever. It doesn't really matter so long as it:

    1) Stays in character. Or expands upon while containing THE character.
    2) No mindless exposition surrounding a small joke, but rather, total, conflict revealing action spanning from the life of these characters.

    The only way that even a slight bit of sense is obtained from the original passage are if Anomen and Neera are dating, this would mean neither is now romance-able and these flags would have to be set for this sub-story banter to be told (lol, I know, right? never gonna happen).

    Anomen, as a character, DOES NOT BLUSTER OR PANIC. He fights off evil, turns undead and doesn't afraid of anything! There is no way in hell, unless he and Neera had a very strong bond or were in the middle of doing the nasty and she pulls out a big brown sack (would shock anyone, I'm sure) would he say "What is this?!"

    I could re-download the game and bring into line all of the new dialogue, but I've a play to write and fixing a game I don't even play at the moment for free while I'm literally living on a diet of brown rice and water is not my idea of a worthwhile usage of time.

    And what the hell's up with Neera's character? is she intended to make the ONLY 13 year old playing this game get a hard-on?

    I'll write for you, Beamdog, I'll write for you!

    Sure, I am not the best writer out there, but I'm better than what you're using at the moment and I'm definitely cheaper, too. (I'd work for piece work, varying cost per .DLG file, since some .DLG files are extremely huge and some are extremely small, something on the lines of £5 (10 or under states) £20 (11-30 states) £50 (31-80 states) £120 (80-300+ states) and this would include revisions, proof reading, spell checking up to a month after piece being sent back))

    Eh! Get in touch if you'd like a trial bit of work done as the above examples are not polished (mostly due to me not playing the game in over a year and being fairly unfamiliar with the lore/how characters talk, but I would familiarise myself if I were to be asked to write a trial example of work).

    What's the worst that can happen on a trial? You get a shoddy bit of work and tell me where to stick it. What's the best that can happen? You can finally fix the shoddy bit of work you have right now, at cheap piece-work rates, and create a more immersive and true gaming experience for everyone.

    Well, this counts as a Job application, I suppose, so I'm off to my Job centre appointment to scrounge my benefits!
  • Nas92Nas92 Member Posts: 7
    Everything about Neera is horrible writing. Who thought it was a good idea to make some steretypical quirky girl as a character in a fantasy game? Boggles my mind. Not to mention they actively disrespect the original BG characters by having these poorly written banters between them. I'm not saying those are awesomely written characters, but at the very least, they're not horribly out of place.

    On the other hand I've been reading some of the banters between the other EE added characters and the originals and I've noticed that most of the banters are absolutely cringeworthy. It's really too bad, because I actually like the idea of Dorn, but because of the constant danger of cringing during the game, I will never have him in my party.

    Seriously, what is up with these horrible dialogues? The BG1 NPC Project has far better ones, and that's for free. At this point, I can't understand why people are excited about SoD, when all we have to look forward to is BG original characters getting disrespected.
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    edited July 2015
    I must be the minority here as I kinda like the new dialogues. They are hit and miss, but still a nice change of pace from dialogues I've read through countless times before.

    Also I'm totally ok with taking the piss out of Annoyamen, I really hate that guy.
  • Nas92Nas92 Member Posts: 7
    Except those characters didn't use modern language with all the modern slang. Neera actually says "chill out" at one point. Really now, that's a bit too much.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Really? In BG2 alone, Imoen says "lighten up" and "heck no", she tells Haer'Dalis she can "smell a cheesy come-on from a mile away". She has "sudden cravings for pasta in the middle of the night". Come on now.
  • Nas92Nas92 Member Posts: 7
    Never seen those lines from Imoen, but I believe you. Never really liked Imoen, compared to the other NPCs she was pretty badly written, not to mention she's horrible both as thief and a mage.

    That said, I still think Neera is a lot more annoying and doesn't fit in near as well as any of the other NPCs (including the other EE ones). Even her VA's accent is out of place (and nearly every single one of her lines are voiced). And I don't even want to remember the romance conversations with her, I actually nearly decided to just kill her and pick up Quayle to be my mage, it was that bad. Not to mention the extremely annoying insistence that she's a half-elf - a very lame running gag, I nearly screamed at my monitor the millionth time I heard it - the stupid "I'm a wild mage, boohoo" questline, and worst of all: you can't possibly avoid her. You're going to watch every single stupid cutscene (and all of them are unnecessarily long), listen to the terrible voice acting, and be forced into a conversation with her. There should have been an option included to select which EE NPCs should load, would make EE a lot more worthwhile.
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    edited July 2015
    Nas92 said:

    compared to the other NPCs she was pretty badly written, not to mention she's horrible both as thief and a mage.

    Don't know what to say, besides that I disagree with all of this.

    Immy is great, she adds some much needed light hearted banter to the games. Also the line she says when getting back her soul literally gave me chills for some reason.

    Her thief stats are not great, but can be boosted to reasonable levels with items and potions. She is a kickass mage.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    This seriously has me on the verge of actually taking Anomen along for the first time ever (and I have been playing this for 10 years) just to see the dialog.

    Personally I do enjoy the odd silliness here and there. It fits Neera's character as much as the insane tangents of Jan Jansen fit his. One can argue about how well-written it is, but considering some of the other cringe-worthy exchanges in both the original and the EE this one is a minor offender.

    BG2 was never too deep or too serious, or even overly immersive (Giant Space Hamster says hi). Certainly it's no PST, but then again, what is. It works for me, and tastes will differ.
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